Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun • Hacker News Board

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#351

Post by TheCoelacanth » Wed, May 08, 2024, 4:58 AM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #331

nytesky wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out elementary and middle schools have a no to low homework policy. By high school the most they assign to non AP courses is 15 min per class. Only assignment is reading 30 min a night, any book they want (including graphic novels). Yet that does not foster a love of reading. I had a ton of homework, but still read a book a week (though I did not do sports, only band, so had way more time than most mainstream student…

15 mins x 7 periods so 2 hours of work after working from 7-3, some light sport or after school activity until 5. Home, dinner, and more work? Absurdity.

Yeah, and the worst part is that 15 minutes per class isn't enough to actually do any useful learning. It's just going to be two hours of pointless busy work.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#352

Post by bruce511 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:00 AM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #331

nytesky wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out elementary and middle schools have a no to low homework policy. By high school the most they assign to non AP courses is 15 min per class. Only assignment is reading 30 min a night, any book they want (including graphic novels). Yet that does not foster a love of reading. I had a ton of homework, but still read a book a week (though I did not do sports, only band, so had way more time than most mainstream student…

15 mins x 7 periods so 2 hours of work after working from 7-3, some light sport or after school activity until 5. Home, dinner, and more work? Absurdity.

This isn't really advice, because ymmv, but young me just ignored homework (with minor exceptions).

I started programming at age 12, and that was more interesting. School was mostly boring so I didn't feel the need to extend it at home.

Looking back I recognise I was fortunate. My teachers didn't seem to over-mind (perhaps because I was well behaved and engaged in class, and did ok in tests). My parents didn't seem to mind as long as my teachers didn't complain too much.

I also now recognise that I went to a school with progressive values, good teachers, and a focus on flexibility (to a point).

I used to joke afterwards that I had a "unspoken agreement" with my teachers. They could hand out as much homework as they liked, and I would quietly ignore it all.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#353

Post by kqr » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

gregjor wrote: post #347

My oldest daughter could read at age four. By second grade, in a Texas public school, she liked to read Nancy Drew mysteries on her own. One day she came home from school crying and told us she didn't want to go back -- she said she had got in trouble for reading her book. Her mom and I went to talk to the teacher. Our daughter had got "caught" reading a Nancy Drew book at her desk while the other kids -- many of who…

Home schooling is illegal in my jurisdiction but this entire discussion is making me think about it more and more.

A question though: does homeschooling require essentially that the entire family can be supported on one salary? (Either by one parent working and the other teaching, or two parents working but paying a full time tutor which becomes a 2-1=1 sort of thing anyway.)

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#354

Post by WaxProlix » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:07 AM UTC

Modified3019 wrote: post #344

gwbas1c wrote: post #88

Take a closer look at how much homework children have, and how much assigned, mandatory reading children have. I went to a private "college prep" high school, and the amount of assigned, mandatory reading was insane. I spent so much time reading assigned novels that I just didn't have time to read for pleasure. (And why read for pleasure if I already spent 30+ minutes reading a boring / awful novel as part of my home…

Another thing is the mandated reading comes with punishment attached. One goes into it knowing that they’ll have to puke out some key points, contort bullshit into an intro-body-conclusion format, or worse, overanalyze it for “meaning”. Early in high school among other things I had to read was “The Veldt”. Of course I hated dealing with it like everything else. I couldn’t have even told you who the author was a few w…

You've almost certainly come across them by now, but his novels are fantastic. I started with The Martian Chronicles and then The Illustrated Man, but ended up loving Something Wicked This Way Comes and even Dandelion Wine.

There's something about good fiction and youth that just went together so well -- maybe people who did a lot of, say, swimming in their formative years feel that way about "good swimming" and youth, but I have to believe that good fiction would still trump most everything else for the time period.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#355

Post by Aerroon » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:17 AM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #88

Take a closer look at how much homework children have, and how much assigned, mandatory reading children have. I went to a private "college prep" high school, and the amount of assigned, mandatory reading was insane. I spent so much time reading assigned novels that I just didn't have time to read for pleasure. (And why read for pleasure if I already spent 30+ minutes reading a boring / awful novel as part of my home…

I stopped reading books because of mandatory reading.

When I graduated from high school one of the thoughts on my mind during the ceremony was "YES!! I will n e v e r have to read books again!!"

I also stopped reading around age 9-10 for fun.

My 'favorite' book during school was Crime and Punishment. I didn't like the book, but I knew the teachers liked it. So if it ever came up I 'liked it very much'.

Many years after school anime -> manga -> light novels -> web novels got me back into reading. Now I spend far too much time on reading, but I don't think I will ever read fiction in my native language again.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#356

Post by bagels » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:17 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #200

allemagne wrote: post #166

There's no good reason to think it's not phones. The article kind of rejects this out of hand but I think it's mostly because that doesn't make for an article that touches on all the other topics the author wanted to write about. >It might be screens, but it’s not only screens. It’s not like kids are suddenly getting their own phones at age 9; recent survey data from Common Sense Media reveals that phone ownership ho…

Why wouldn't it be phones? I could read right now, but instead I'm on my nth round of the Hacker News front page. Reading competes against instant gratification, and it doesn't win as often as I'd like it to. Reading requires discipline when scrolling is an option.

Isn't Hacker News reading, but just not novels?

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#357

Post by bruce511 » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:19 AM UTC

hehdhdjehehegwv wrote: post #267

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The teacher first accused my parents of lying that I read that many books, because it quickly got to double digits, but I was able to summarize all of them off the top of my head, so instead I was just forbidden from doing it altogether. > Not sure what the lesson is there, lol. Lessons learned: a) Incentives matter (economy 101) b) If a market offers possibilities for arbitrage, market participants will attempt to…

Oh I mean what was the intended lesson from the teacher. Read less?

I guess the lesson is "don't over deliver" :)

In high school we had to make a list of 12 books we read in the year. I was reading a few a week. My list contained 12 books.

(Side note, we lived some distance from the library in elementary school, but we got through the books -fast- so the librarians gave us extra library cards to reduce visits to like once a week. I also got adult-cards pretty young (like 10) because I'd read all the kids books and was already reading older fare. This was in the days before YA was a genre :)

Of course you had a poor teacher because they obviously desired to teach you something, but forgot to tell you what the lesson was. Other than they were a bad teacher, but i guess you may already have known that.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#358

Post by whythre » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:19 AM UTC

dmazzoni wrote: post #340

lupire wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which books of the canon did you read that you found to be garbage prose?

I wouldn't use the term "garbage prose", but I do agree that many books from the literary canon aren't the greatest choice to assign to kids. Steinbeck and Faulkner come to mind. I understand that they're important, influential, and well-written. But I just didn't relate to them. There was almost nothing about the main characters' challenges or desires that I could understand. My son was assigned "The Outsiders" by S…

“ My son was assigned "The Outsiders" by S.E. Hinton - he didn't mind reading it, but he said he just didn't really relate to any of the characters. Even though it's set just 50 years ago, the culture it describes bares basically no resemblance to modern-day life for a teenager.”

Maybe that’s ok? I read the Outsiders when I was young (25 years ago or so) and although I thought it was a bit weird, it wasn’t bad. My life bears little resemblance to many current contemporary people’s lives the world over, but exploring those differences can be good. I am all for giving the kids a chance to see a different world and get a sense of how things can change.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#359

Post by Aerroon » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:22 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #191

bamboozled wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never really had any homework, or I never did it. I never read for pleasure either. I don't think it's that, but I get your point. Too busy = no time for reading for fun

Not just no time, but making even otherwise fun things mandatory with a volume that's overwhelming can suck the fun out of it and/or make it seem dull.

At one point I came to the realization that "reading is supposed to be fun". But it wasn't for me during school. At all. I hated every minute of it.

It made me wonder if children in the future will be forced to watch movies and play video games in their "literary education" and whether they will hate watching movies and playing games because of that.

Re: Book people think they know why 9-year-olds stop reading for fun

#360

Post by tivert » Wed, May 08, 2024, 5:26 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #302

tivert wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So rather than search out each book they have and keep track of its status, then recheck a few weeks later, just remove the lot. That doesn't pass the smell test. The only way I can see that being even remotely true is if the teacher's goal is mainly to push up against someone's line, politically. Even in the most hostile environment, I doubt you'd run afoul of anyone with a well-stocked library of widely beloved c…

> The only way I can see that being even remotely true is if the teacher's goal is mainly to push up against someone's line, politically. Doesn’t this swing both ways? Surely banning books is seen as a fairly extreme and intended to impose your views on someone else. What other interpretation is there?

> Doesn’t this swing both ways? Surely banning books is seen as a fairly extreme and intended to impose your views on someone else. What other interpretation is there?

No. I was only responding to the false hyperbole that teachers can't keep books in their classrooms anymore.

Also, the whole controversy around "banning books" is stupid and full of dumb propaganda. That extends to the term "book ban" itself, which is a bit of manipulative, misleading spin that rivals "death tax." If anyone was really against "book bans," they should demonstrate their commitment by fighting for a Hustler subscription and some "gender critical" books for every classroom. It's really a fight about who gets to do the banning.