Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On this issue in the group that complain about the cookie law there are some people who are very wrong on purpose because it's in their interest, and some people who are very wrong because they genuinely don't understand the position they're defending, complaining about being made aware of the fee, instead of the fees themselves or the fact that the companies hide them if not forced by law. The reality is that I (a…
The reality is that most people don't want to be tracked: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/facebook-adverti...
Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
351–360 of 662 posts
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree. How much corporate propaganda are people consuming that legislators are seen as wholly responsible for the bad behavior and malicious compliance actions of corporations? What does it say about the relationship between businesses and consumers that the first response to this bad behavior is to shout "look what you made them do!" Seemingly it is everyone's fault except the bad actors themselves.
If it only were that simple. When the GDPR came out, a lot of confusion and misunderstanding ensued. Not only regarding the damn cookie banner. Even totally legitimate health-care providers started to collect signatures to be on the safe side. I still rememeber receiving a basic GDPR training where we were told that opt-out/signing is only necessary if the entity is planning to do weird stuff with your data. IOW, if…
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unfortunately a non-negligible number of people in tech also have libertarian leanings Why is this unfortunate? Because you don't agree with us? The "they would agree with me if they were smarter" trope is tired and gets us nowhere.
> Why is this unfortunate? GP answered your question, for some reason you decided to cut the quote right before the answer. Here is the part that is missing from your quote which answers your question: '[...]with a default “gubmint bad!” position'
I say that’s unfortunate
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Almost all websites make money through ads, Doesn't require tracking of individuals. > or at least keep logs of user activity to help them optimize their website Doesn't require tracking of individuals.
Correct me if I'm wrong, aren't but IP addresses are considered to be "personal information" and therefore collecting them is "tracking" under the GDPR?
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just been in Europe last week (I live in US): you have no idea what a nightmare internet is in Europe. You are only seeing a side effect here.
> what a nightmare internet is in Europe I live in Europe; I don't experience this "nightmare". Would you care to expand?
Now I am not saying the US doesn't have a problem. They just don't have GDPR and most website don't ask you for any permission to track you. So the experience is generally smoother (with the occasional tracking popup).
Ideally there should be a way for me to broadcast my willingness to share my data and not allow dark patterns to try to change my opinion. But the GDPR does not cover that and allows websites to drive you crazy until you click "YES, Track me"
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#356>, Paul Graham came up with the thought, that the EU forces companies to have cookie banners. There is no law for cookie banners. [...] Companies could easily avoid any cookie banner. Just don’t track. KingOfCoders/amazingcto, of course you are technically correct but Paul Graham wasn't talking about the letter of the law. Instead, you have to interpret his complaint with the lens of game theory . I.e. The Law of Uni…
Doesn't that argument work both ways? If you interpret the EU's regulation with the "lens of game theory", it is an unintended consequence of aggressive corporate data collection. Not sure why it makes sense to complain about the EU and not the companies.
It's more morally permissible for corporate decision makers to install a global surveillance complex than for civil servants to attempt to regulate it.
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think this is strictly accurate. There’s nothing about cookies themselves that makes them a problem. It’s the way they are used. Needing to inform people you are using cookies for sessions is like needing to inform people you are using a fork to eat. The problem is that some people are using the fork to stab people, so now we require everyone to say how they’re going to use it in advance. Instead of just proh…
You don’t need to inform people you are using cookies. It is not about cookies.
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that companies are doing that says more about the bad law than the companies which is exactly Paul Graham's point.
[flagged]
Please don't do this on HN.
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#359Sure, you can say that websites have the option of "Just don't track", but realistically we know that that will never happen. Particularly since a lot of websites are actually tracking the user for the purpose of making the experience better (such as remembering settings, recent search terms, etc...), rather than tracking for the purpose of selling data to advertisers. But, from the user's point of view, they won't know what they have agreed to anyways. So essentially we get to a scenario where 99% of the websites have annoying cookie banners, when we already know that 99% of users won't read the terms anyways...
If the EU was good at regulating things, they would come up with a solution which puts the responsibility primarily on the website. One example of this could be if EU defines like ~5 different "data ratings", with pre-defined conditions of what sort of data was allowed to be tracked for each rating. Then the websites are responsible for choosing the rating that corresponds to their level of data gathering, and if they report it incorrectly, the EU could fine them.
The result of this is that when a user visits a website, you can quickly see a "badge" in the browser which lets you know what sort of tracking this page has (thus the user learn what each rating means, and get a better understanding of what they agree to). This is very similar to what Apple already does in the App Store in the "Data Linked To You" section for each app.
Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law
#360Just use Consent Free analytics like Wide Angle Analytics.