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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#351

Post by gnicholas »

bagels wrote: post #342
gnicholas wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop the attacks on solar installation I've not heard of any attacks, just reductions in subsidies (tax credits, net metering). Can you share what you're referring to?

California specific: income based minimum pricing, and 'wholesale' pricing for power sent to the grid.

Income-based base billing is indeed terrible, but it is not an attack on solar. You'd pay it whether you have panels or not. Also, legislators have apparently come to their senses and are looking to repeal it. [1-2] As for the pricing for power sent to the grid, I did mention the changes to net metering, which offer grandfathering for existing installations.

1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-progressive-california-epipha...

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39320388#39320860

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#353

Post by gnicholas »

beembeem wrote: post #346
gnicholas wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paying them nothing would be even more unfair (and that's the only option available where I am at least - net metering or no household generation) I wasn't suggesting this. The phased rollback of net metering in California (the state mentioned in my original parent comment as "attacking" solar installation) means that solar owners will still get paid, just not as much as before. I'm sorry that you live somewhere th…

The "phased rollback of net metering" is a bit more extreme than you suggest. Have you heard of income-based billing? [1] [1] https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/working-for-you/sdge...

I have heard of income-based billing, but that will apply regardless of whether you own solar panels. Also, some legislators are trying to repeal it before it goes into effect. [1-2]

1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-progressive-california-epipha...

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39320388#39320860

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#354

Post by JustLurking2022 »

The only thing stopping me from buying a great pump is how unreliable the power grid is in my area. Lines are above ground, with numerous trees overhanging them so a snow storm is high risk for a power outage at a time I can least afford it, as road conditions may prevent seeking shelter elsewhere. Conversely, with a furnace and a small generator to run the blower, I can keep heat on through a couple days without power.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#355

Post by secabeen »

wongarsu wrote: post #314
what_ever wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is net metering a subsidy?

If few people use net metering it's kind of fair. Your solar installation generates electricity, any excess gets delivered to your neighbors. The electricity is providing the infrastructure for that without making any money on that specific transaction (it gets deducted from your meter and added to your neighbors' meter), but that's easy enough to account for in base fees. The issues start if too many people do net m…

> You can still maintain the infrastructure with base fees

In theory yes, but the grid has not used properly scoped base fees to pay for infrastructure. Delivery costs of power are more than half the total cost; to get to a base+generation model, you'd probably see monthly connection fees for Electricity in the $100+ range for many Americans.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#356

Post by newZWhoDis »

bagels wrote: post #214
mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

The point you’re missing is electricity should never be expensive, if it is then you’re doing something very stupid.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#357

Post by gcheong »

GloriousKoji wrote: post #193
burkaman wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's now more expensive to fuel a vehicle with electricity than gas This is very hard to believe, what are you paying for electricity? California gas prices are also way above the national average at the moment. Here's a per-state comparison from last year, I'm sure it's a bit out of date but I doubt things have completed flipped in a single year: https://energyinnovation.org/2023/07/27/ev-fill-up-savings/

I live in the Bay Area California and get electricity from PG&E. I use a minimal amount of electricity and I paid 43 cents/kWh last month. Gas from Costco is $4/gal right now. I have a plugin-hybrid which does 4miles/kwh and 45mpg or in terms of money: 9.3miles/$ on electricity and 11.25gas-miles/$ on gasoline. But maybe you don't actually care about fuel efficiency, then you have an argument that it's cheaper to fue…

"I paid 43 cents/kWh last month"

I live in the Bay Area as well and I have an EV (2015 Fiat 500e), and am on the PG& Home Charging EV2-A plan. I charge my car between 12am and 3pm and pay $0.28/kwh, 29kwh/100 miles and I should be getting about 12.3miles/$.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#358

Post by thelastgallon »

mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

If electricity is costly, it makes sense to put solar panels. Consolidate all energy (transportation - EV, HVAC - electric, induction stove, heat pump water heater), put solar panels, and wipe off all energy bills. Every household can save $400 - $800 on utility bills.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#359

Post by secabeen »

tomschlick wrote: post #272
bagels wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? It's $0.52/kwh here, and before that rate increase, we were paying (edit) $278/mo in the summer for similar (70 year old 3 bedroom house), and slightly lower temepratures.

For context of how crazy that is... here in OH we pay ~$0.12/kwh

Another factor is topography. Ohio is pretty flat and running power lines around it is not that hard. California is big and has lots of rugged terrain. It costs a lot more to bring power to the small town in the California mountains, and those costs have to be paid by the urban and sub-urban customers of our large state-wide utilities.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#360

Post by thelastgallon »

mullingitover wrote: post #228
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

Southern Cali resident here: I got a mini split system installed a couple years back, and last year's eye-popping surprise gas bill inspired me to start running it backward for heat instead of using the furnace. Pricewise, it's actually a wash. My electric bill went up by about $100 a month, whereas during the winter my gas bill was running about $100 a month to run the furnace (aside from that one random $600 bill o…

Its a wash when gas prices are at historical lows: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/rngwhhdm.htm
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