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Intel's Humbling

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Re: Intel's Humbling

#351

Post by davidy123 »

UberFly wrote: post #346
davidy123 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they have become strongly associated since that quote is part of the release for their new plant. It is sickening to me this kind of hard-right religious zealotry is part of decisions of tech companies. I am avoiding Intel as much as possible now, I hope others will consider this too.

That quote didn't come out of Intel's mouth.

It is directly associated with the deal they are making. Would you let that quote be used with a deal your company is making? Intel knows full well how this is being spun.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#352

Post by eslaught »

katbyte wrote: post #242
eslaught wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree mobile was a miss but the linked article actually quotes Intel's former COE making a pretty good argument why they missed: > "The thing you have to remember is that this was before the iPhone was introduced and no one knew what the iPhone would do... At the end of the day, there was a chip that they were interested in that they wanted to pay a certain price for and not a nickel more and that price was below o…

I’m not so sure, he made a choice purely on “will it make money now” not “well let’s take a chance and see if this pays of big and if not we’ll loose a little money” It’s not like they couldn’t afford it and taking chances is important

Ok, but you have to view this through the lens of what was on the market at the time and what kind of expectations Intel likely would have had. I can't imagine that Apple told Intel what they were planning. Therefore, it would have been reasonable to look around at the state of what existed at the time (basically, iPods, flip phones, and the various struggling efforts that were trying to become smartphones at the time) and conclude that none of that was going to amount to anything big.

I'm pretty sure most people here panned the iPhone after it came out, so it's not as if anyone would have predicted it prior to even being told it existed.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#353

Post by sd1010 »

RCitronsBroker wrote: post #294
rapsey wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is that elite independent of Xi? A relatively independent elite is probably a more stable system. But a completely subservient elite to the fearless leader is however much more dangerous.

I don’t think Xi is as independent as you believe, but that’s a matter of personal opinion. I just don’t think it’s very likely for just about any leader putting themselves into the position you are describing. This is a reoccurring narrative in western media, and I’m not here to defend dictators, but i feel like reality is less black and white than that. Many of the "crazed leaders" we are told are acting irrational…

Russia doesn't frear NATO - see their reaction on Finland joining it. Also the pipelines were not the reason for invasion. They were the opposite - a deterrence. As soon as Russia built pipelines that were circumventing Ukraine, they decided to invade, thinking that the gas transmition would't be in danger now.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#354

Post by kortilla »

mmaunder wrote: post #344
kortilla wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is oversimplified and actually underplays how serious the issue is. These companies didn’t fail because of myopic financial engineers. The ones focused on quarter to quarter tend to bomb the company relatively quickly and do get flushed out. These companies failed because of long term financial visionaries. These are the worst because they are thinking about how the company can capture markets at all costs, dive…

> These companies failed because of long term financial visionaries. These are the worst because they are thinking about how the company can capture markets at all costs, diversify into all adjacent markets, etc. Long term financial visionaries? No they’re simply plundering the business to reward shareholders and executives through buybacks and dividends. They rationalize this as “maximizing shareholder value” but it…

Don’t be naive. You missed the entire point of what I highlighted and looking for “dividends and buybacks” as your signal will lead you nowhere.

CEOs not focused on product vision who focus on “company growth” as a vague vision are what lead to Intel, GE, etc. There is no greedy raiding of the coffers like your caricature implies in this scenarios.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#355

Post by d_burfoot »

Intel has made a lot of mistakes, but I'm reluctant to bash a company that's contributed such a vast amount to human civilization. The insights and innovations pushed forward by Intel in its heyday have delivered incalculable benefits to billions of humans and will benefit billions more for the rest of human history. Their recent history is checkered but the overall grade for Intel is A+ : staggering success.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#356

Post by myth_drannon »

throwaway4good wrote: post #337
davidy123 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This investment, at a time when … wages war against utter wickedness, a war in which good must defeat evil, is an investment in the right and righteous values that spell progress for humanity" That is not a partner for creating logical systems. Very clear their current decisions are political.

That bananas quote is from an Israeli minister. Imagine what it would do if Intel became strongly associated with one side in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It could really hurt their business. Usually business leaders are smart enough to stay out of politics.

They are taking sides. That is easily seen during an interview with the CEO, who almost cried talking about the events of October 7th. Intel will give 5000$ war grant to the Israeli employees. One of Intel's largest fabs is a 20-minute drive from where the massacres occurred.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#357

Post by nebula8804 »

myth_drannon wrote: post #356
throwaway4good wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bananas quote is from an Israeli minister. Imagine what it would do if Intel became strongly associated with one side in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It could really hurt their business. Usually business leaders are smart enough to stay out of politics.

They are taking sides. That is easily seen during an interview with the CEO, who almost cried talking about the events of October 7th. Intel will give 5000$ war grant to the Israeli employees. One of Intel's largest fabs is a 20-minute drive from where the massacres occurred.

Do you know if AMD has any presence in Israel? Intel has already sold me multiple garbage dump products in the past and so if I can minimize my Israel related purchases i'd prefer to do that.

The Mac is annoying since I think some pieces of their silicon designs come from Israel (storage controller). Can someone correct me if I am wrong on that?

Re: Intel's Humbling

#358

Post by mmaunder »

kortilla wrote: post #354
mmaunder wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These companies failed because of long term financial visionaries. These are the worst because they are thinking about how the company can capture markets at all costs, diversify into all adjacent markets, etc. Long term financial visionaries? No they’re simply plundering the business to reward shareholders and executives through buybacks and dividends. They rationalize this as “maximizing shareholder value” but it…

Don’t be naive. You missed the entire point of what I highlighted and looking for “dividends and buybacks” as your signal will lead you nowhere. CEOs not focused on product vision who focus on “company growth” as a vague vision are what lead to Intel, GE, etc. There is no greedy raiding of the coffers like your caricature implies in this scenarios.

Jeez it seems every thread on HN these days ends in a personal attack.

Here’s an article unpacking the financialization at Intel. The good stuff is about halfway down.

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/how-intel-fi...

Re: Intel's Humbling

#359

Post by drBonkers »

mike_hearn wrote: post #266
mixedbit wrote: post #258

Isn't the current GPU-based stack which drives the progress of AI an early stage architecture which will become sub-optimal and obsolete in a longer term? Having separate processors with separate memory and separate software stack to do matrix operations works, but it would be much more convenient and productive to have a system with one RAM and CPUs that can efficiently do matrix operations and would not require the…

The software stack co-evolves with the hardware, if the hardware can't do something fast then the software guys can't necessarily even try it out. People have been trying to break NVIDIA's moat by creating non-GPU accelerators. The core maths operations aren't that varied so it's an obvious thing to try. Nothing worked, not even NVIDIA's own attempts. AI researchers have a software stack oriented around devices with…

How do the new “TPUs” and “NPUs” slot into your perspective of GPUs? Just nomenclature catching up to describe matrix math, ML GPUs without video output?

Re: Intel's Humbling

#360

Post by davidy123 »

sentinalien wrote: post #349
davidy123 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This investment, at a time when … wages war against utter wickedness, a war in which good must defeat evil, is an investment in the right and righteous values that spell progress for humanity" That is not a partner for creating logical systems. Very clear their current decisions are political.

Basically all the big semiconductor companies do R&D in Israel

Yes, but it's all relative. A giant new development is different than a branch office. Though in all cases there is no doubt overlap with their military industrial complex. But I don't think we will normally see such religious extremism tied to projects, and that should be called out, loudly and clearly, as not ok.
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