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Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

kevinchen.co

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Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#351

Post by pests »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #333
coalteddy wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is probably because, in the EU, passenger rail transport is prioritised over cargo. For example in Switzwerland rail cargo is mainly transported during the night because thats the only time the network isn't working at it's limit for the passenger trains. In Canada, to my understanding, it's the other way round where passenger trains have been reduced because of the need for more cargo train trips. The USA…

In the USA most railroad are owned by the railroad company. When Amtrak wants to use a piece of rail they pay the railway. But the USA is VAST. Freight trains are LONG. Not much of America's West is actually double track. And when you have a shorter Amtrack and a long freight train the Amtrack loses. The Amtrack has to wait until the freight train has passed. As the freight trains run on PSR [1] there is no fixed tim…

I believe you, but why does your source claim otherwise?

"Under PSR, freight trains operate on fixed schedules, much like passenger trains, instead of being dispatched whenever a sufficient number of loaded cars are available."

So do they leave on a fixed schedule, or is there no fixed time? It sounds like the previous system had no fixed time (leave when ready) whereas in the PSR world - there is in fact a set schedule.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#352

Post by pests »

ajmurmann wrote: post #330
coalteddy wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is probably because, in the EU, passenger rail transport is prioritised over cargo. For example in Switzwerland rail cargo is mainly transported during the night because thats the only time the network isn't working at it's limit for the passenger trains. In Canada, to my understanding, it's the other way round where passenger trains have been reduced because of the need for more cargo train trips. The USA…

Yeah, I understand that in the US the rail is actually owned by cargo train companies, so they give their trains priority.

Which is against the law.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#353

Post by [deleted] »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #247

Build more railroads. (I used to work for an autonomous truck company, and when you factor in the cost of roads in addition to the development of the trucks, it makes absolutely no sense to do autonomous trucking when you could do trains. As a culture, we've been brainwashed not to fund trains. We collectively spend billions and billions on roads but would not dare spend money to build more tracks. It is shocking and…

[deleted]

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#354

Post by frankzinger »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #259
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #238

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihkVBBThAnE This is a video from our firefighters here in slovenia... Humans are shitty drivers, sure, but how the hell would a computer react to a chaos like this?

Pulling to the side when the traffic jam starts, not only when the firefighter walks up and knocks on the window. Also, since it's a relatively time-insensitive situation (as in, tens of seconds to deal with it rather than seconds), once it identifies that it's an exceptional situation, it can have someone connect to the truck remotely.

Well people apparently don't pull to the side in real life. And then a remote operator will also be powerless.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#355

Post by sendomatic »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #277
AlexandrB wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem few people talk about is the small, in-city rail lines that used to exist that don't anymore. 100 years ago the city I live in had dedicated rail lines going to every major factory in the city - there was little need for last-mile trucking. AFAIK there are no western cities that are organized like this anymore, so the best you can do is deliver goods to a rail station and truck it from there - thi…

I live in a city that has some of these going through it, and I can say that my opinions changed dramatically after moving here, with respect to this idea. Our real estate agent, in hindsight, had employed numerous subtle tactics to discourage us from taking serious interest in homes that were within a quarter mile or so of these lines, although I was completely oblivious to what they were doing at the time. What I d…

I live in a small town and the loudest sounds besides the train itself is the extremely loud horn it blows before every crossing. Apparently nobody wants to pay for automatic booms at the road crossings so it legally has to use the horn that blasts through the area.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#356

Post by Dylan16807 »

sleepybrett wrote: post #65
michaelgiba wrote: post #12

I think there are some good points here but IMHO this is overly focused on flawless 100% of the time L5 autonomy. Many autonomous trucking companies can become economically viable without perfection because 1. They aren’t dealing with consumers directly 2. Can control or focus on specific well understood shipping lanes 3. Can provide more human in the loop assistance for tricky situations. In this way trucking is eas…

you are describing trains. you've just reinvented the freight train.

Not dealing with consumers directly is something that applies to a million businesses.

Focusing on specific routes applies to many many businesses too.

The ability to provide more human assistance in tricky situations doesn't apply to trains at all.

Your claim that they are "describing trains" is utter nonsense.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#357

Post by hinkley »

Qwertious wrote: post #349
sneak wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A distracted driver can kill pedestrians just as easily in a 3999lb vehicle.

>A distracted driver can kill pedestrians just as easily in a 3999lb vehicle. No they can't - a lighter vehicle has a slightly harder time killing people. It's still incredibly easy, but the pedestrian fatality rates do go down the lighter the vehicle is.

Haven't we proven that the sense of invulnerability leads to worse outcomes as well?

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#358

Post by Dylan16807 »

ars wrote: post #152
itsoktocry wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it though? More rolling resistance and braking surface area?

But then pressure (force) on each tire is lower now, so the friction is also lower. Effective friction is a function of weight and coefficient of friction between the materials. Interestingly the surface area of the contact is not part of the equation. On a flat surface a truck and a car using the same tire compound should have identical stopping distances. The issue comes when you are going downhill.

> On a flat surface a truck and a car using the same tire compound should have identical stopping distances.

Well according to the article they don't have identical stopping distances, so let's figure out what would fix it.

> The issue comes when you are going downhill.

That just changes the angle of gravity. Why would it affect trucks and cars differently? I thought the point was that going downhill exacerbates differences in stopping distance, not that is causes them.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#359

Post by anticensor »

manquer wrote: post #336
kevinchen wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. At the mean time between failures needed to exceed human performance, the uptime of the network connection quickly becomes a limiting factor. It’s possible to pick only routes that have great cell coverage but this limits commercial viability.

Remote does not mean just sitting in a room far away. It could be simply one truck with a lead driver and few automated ones following it closely. Road trains are an option. Even just two autonomous trailers to a lead truck will reduce the driver costs by 2/3rds. Unlike autonomous cars where everyone needs to go wherever, inter city trucks have fixed well known routes with predicable volume of cargo that can be easil…

> one truck with a lead driver and few automated ones following it closely.

Bulk freight trains solve that problem already. Simply use flatcars or intermodal containers then use rubber tyred trucks in the last kilometre.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#360

Post by lelanthran »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #284
Varriount wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).

Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to elimin…

I'm probably missing something, but why would an electric train need a battery?

What would the battery be used for?

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