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IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

wsj.com

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Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#351

Post by baby_souffle »

nox101 wrote: post #314
closeparen wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jaw dropping pay is inextricable from the jaw dropping Bay Area housing market. Standard white-collar pay for Bay Area-only roles is a pretty bad deal, and most tech workers would be better off learning something else. But standard white-collar pay with the geographic distribution of other white-collar work (i.e. any mid-sized and up metro is fine) would be a perfectly good equilibrium.

It's arguably more expensive in West Los Angeles (where tech is in LA). Most articles compare LA to SF but LA is giant. If you lived in La Verne (cheap), the east most side of LA, your commute to tech companies on the West Side would be 2 to 3hrs. Looking at Rent Cafe: SF: $3267 Santa Monica: $3956 Venice: $3844 Playa Vista: $3726 Marina Del Rey $3896 These are all places near Meta, Google, etc.... I don't know if th…

> I don't know if the "coliving" thing has hit SF yet

There was a startup for just this a few years ago. Home share is what it was called.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#352

Post by kypro »

boplicity wrote: post #325
yesiamyourdad wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part that's left out of every statement that starts with "There's a shortage of workers in industry X" ... "willing to accept the current wages / working conditions". Similar for "jobs Americans won't do"... "at the wages being offered". It drives me insane that people freely accept the concept of supply and demand, except when it comes to labor.

There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.

Something I advocate for in the UK is that we should actively suppress wages of industries like healthcare and agricultural with cheap foreign labour, while providing access to good and affordable education so that native workers maximally benefit from the migrant labour underclass. Specifically I think we should bring foreign workers here on mass to work in specific industries then deport them if they're unable to find work. We should ensure they're not allowed to work in other industries to reduce labour competition with natives working in sectors for which we don't want to suppress wages.

That said, some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass which we're knowingly underpaying, but I'd agree with you that the current system benefits us, although it could be better with more immigration and labour controls.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#353

Post by grogenaut »

asynchronous wrote: post #346
grogenaut wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many retire/quit/die each year

Not enough, obviously

not enough for what? you'd have to show numbers of either unemployed new grads or retiring tech folks over the last few years to be able to say anything at all.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#355

Post by wombat-man »

ravenstine wrote: post #90

For most of my career, I was being hounded by various recruiters virtually every day. For the past few years... crickets . This told me everything I needed to know, regardless of the many whom have been in denial.

Yeah I've noticed a distinct reduction in linkedin spam too.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#356

Post by fnordpiglet »

orochimaaru wrote: post #36
deathpanels wrote: post #25

Everyone is talking about layoffs and lack of hiring, but I've found the problem to be that companies are cutting costs by silently increasing workload on existing employees. Everyone is getting burnt out trying to keep a 300-person engineering team running on only 100 head count. That leads to more incidents, slower delivery, less innovation, longer hours. Even those who are still employed are seeing working conditi…

I think a lot of big-co are setting up subsidiaries overseas and hiring there. It's different from the contract based offshoring model that happened in 2007 or so which had rather disastrous results. I know my company has and plans to have almost 1/2 its IT workforce as direct employees overseas.

My exposure to bigco is they aren’t hiring anywhere.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#357

Post by jzb »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #212

> Based on analysis of US Bureau of Labor Statistics data by Janco, news that the IT industry added just 700 jobs following an estimated 262,242 jobs lost amid mass layoffs is shocking, but not surprising. So it isn't that only 700 jobs were created, it's that despite the massive layoffs everyone is reporting on and focusing on, there was actually a small net positive in job growth. > Currently, there are almost 100K…

I wonder how many “unfilled” roles are ghost jobs. I keep seeing the same roles re-posted or just never filled.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#359

Post by sakopov »

Pepe1vo wrote: post #57

The cognitive dissonance I'm getting from reading the comments here is pretty staggering. Where I live (The Netherlands) me and every IT person I know is getting absolutely hounded by recruiters. As an additional anecdote I'll add that I've just switched jobs to a start-up on very favorable terms and the recruitment process basically amounted to being cold called and asked "hey you wanna work here?". Can anyone here…

I had maybe 3 emails from recruiters in the last year. Used to be a couple every other day. I'm between West coast and Midwest of the US and it seems like hiring is picking up quite a bit in Midwest. Or maybe it's just less competitive and jobs aren't flying off the market like they do on the coasts. With that said I still know a good number of people who have been looking for months and are getting desperate.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#360

Post by nemo44x »

hotpotamus wrote: post #86
Pepe1vo wrote: post #57

The cognitive dissonance I'm getting from reading the comments here is pretty staggering. Where I live (The Netherlands) me and every IT person I know is getting absolutely hounded by recruiters. As an additional anecdote I'll add that I've just switched jobs to a start-up on very favorable terms and the recruitment process basically amounted to being cold called and asked "hey you wanna work here?". Can anyone here…

In my experience as an American working with people in the EU (particularly the UK/Western Europe), the developers there are every bit as capable as Americans and get paid less than half of what an American would - seems like quite a deal to me.

You’re not including all the taxes that need to be paid and that employment bonds are far more difficult to break.

But yeah, EU engineers are very good in my experience.

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