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Things are about to get worse for generative AI

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#351

Post by madamelic »

atq2119 wrote: post #155
bnralt wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a somewhat dystopian thing to fix. Imagine a scenario where Photoshop would scan images you uploaded for copyright material and then refuse to work if it determined image contained any copyrighted material or characters (even if it was just a fan drawing you did). This reminds me of the early days of the internet where people wanted to remove free fanfiction for violations of copyright laws. Trying to a…

It is dystopian, and it already exists, e.g. printers refusing to print anything that looks sufficiently like money. Like many things, I suspect this will end up getting worse before there's a chance for it to get better.

> It is dystopian, and it already exists, e.g. printers refusing to print anything that looks sufficiently like money.

There is no fair or private use of hyper-realistic fake money.

There are fair uses of copyrighted materials unless you want to start suing children for copyright infringement when they draw a character.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#352

Post by outside1234 »

madamelic wrote: post #329
Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

Copyright should be the problem of the person using the works and not the problem of the AI generating it. Unless Nintendo plans on busting down the doors of every person who tries to draw Mario or preventing little Timmy from making a parody of Coca-Cola, making it where AI cannot generated copyrighted works is insane imo. Those brands should be proud to be such a big part of the cultural fabric that it is difficult…

The thing is: OpenAI and Microsoft have indemnified their users - so their users problems are their problems.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#353

Post by kayodelycaon »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #318
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder. Do Cliff Notes have to pay royalties to the underlying material? Cliff Notes contain quotes, and citations. Does the cliff note company, when producing Cliff Notes for "Into The Wild", pay royalties to the publisher? For that matter, does any paper, article, etc.. that may contain a quote from another, have to pay royalties to the source of the quotes?

Cliff’s Notes has a strong fair use claim, because they offer basic criticism and surface-level commentary alongside their summaries.

They also, arguably, add value to the books themselves.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#354

Post by tsumnia »

madamelic wrote: post #329
Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

Copyright should be the problem of the person using the works and not the problem of the AI generating it. Unless Nintendo plans on busting down the doors of every person who tries to draw Mario or preventing little Timmy from making a parody of Coca-Cola, making it where AI cannot generated copyrighted works is insane imo. Those brands should be proud to be such a big part of the cultural fabric that it is difficult…

When I cover generative AI in my Ethics in AI lecture, one of few soapbox opinions I give is that GenAI is doing essentially what people do - copy others. Picasso has a quote about "Good Artists copy, Great Artists steal", which doesn't mean try to pass Lario and Muigi off as your own, but rather that great artists are able to take aspects from other works (also called 'inspiration') without being caught. My personality is a combination of elements taken from Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, and King of the Deathmatch Mick Foley. I like making vector graphics based on pictures. I have a folder on my computer called "Website Ideas" that's just screenshots of UIs that I've come across that I really like.

I also point to a YouTube video by Kirby Ferguson "Everything is a Remix" [1] which talks about how so much of our collective culture stems from copy. It's a great video if you have an hour.

When Little Timmy crayons a copy of Mario, we congratulate him for his creativity. Is it unique, one of a kind art? Well Timmy made it, but he didn't think up the original idea of a video game plumber. I give this view to GenAI right now - it's not capable of achieving that "next step" in "original design", but its performing like a novice artist/musician, it's mimicking what it sees.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9RYuvPCQUA

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#355

Post by EMM_386 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #267
Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

Yeah, I really don’t see everyone else giving up here because “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays. LLM people are really starting to veer into crypto-bro territory with the evangelising about how they’re the best thing since sliced bread and transistors.

> “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays

That's your take on LLMs?

Ask it how it is possible for a photon to travel across the universe, arriving at the same time it departed, resulting in the journey taking zero time (in its reference frame).

Ask what implications are if certain viral amino sequences result in messenger RNA translocating to the host cell nucleus, potentially with the entire genome.

Ask if aircraft fly due to Bernoulli's Principle or Newton's Third Law and physical impact.

This is "crypto-bro territory"? No, not quite.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#356

Post by FridgeSeal »

Arainach wrote: post #321
FridgeSeal wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially true if that child or its mother has a huge market capitalization, large profit margins, highly-paid employees and shareholders eager to reap some more $$. This is the bit I don’t get from the “feed everything to machine” LLM-maximalists. Do they think courts don’t take context into account, do they think all actions happen in a vacuum and that they can just skip along and ignore laws at their pleasure b…

>This is the bit I don’t get from the “feed everything to machine” LLM-maximalists. Do they think courts don’t take context into account, do they think all actions happen in a vacuum and that they can just skip along and ignore laws at their pleasure An entire generation of unicorn startups believed that (Uber, AirBnB, etc.). We see in the news every day that once you have enough money laws don't apply to you (most t…

> Uber and AirBnB

The 2 darling startups that are now facing increasingly less rosy futures?

Airbnb in particular is facing enough backlash that I’d be surprised if it lasts terribly much longer.

Sure, they get away with it for a while, but not forever.

> We see in the news every day that once you have enough money laws don't apply to you

I agree with you here, but I think this is a much broader conversation about capitalism in general which would be getting a bit off-topic for this particular thread, except to say, capitalist forces aren’t above cauterising a limb if it becomes too annoying or intrudes on the other limbs too much. I think the “AI” limb might be overstating its own importance, and I suspect that if it got too up in everyone’s interests re-profit, it would, as an industry, very quickly find itself being neutered. Capital interests would love to get rid of pesky human labour, but if the alternative is too annoying, they’ll have no objections to going back to grinding people through the system again.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#357

Post by eropple »

jprete wrote: post #330
DonsDiscountGas wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The examples given are all billion-dollar, decades old characters. The volume of material directly/indirectly referencing those characters in a random internet crawl will be fairly large. Most copyrighted works won't have that issue. If anything it means they only infringe on archetypal works and not the other 99.9%. If I write a story involving robots and spaceships (of which there are many, before and since Star Wa…

I'm opposed to my (fairly minor) copyrighted works being used in GenAI datasets as well. I just have no practical way to stop it, and there aren't clear enough damages to sue. That doesn't make it legal.

OpenAI also plays some ugly games with regards to the difference between training and search. Search requests come from the `ChatGPT-User` user-agent, and I'd like to allow those; training and scraping requests come from `GPTBot`, and I have no interest in those. But as per their own documentation, putting one in robots.txt disables the other.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#359

Post by madamelic »

gchamonlive wrote: post #97
keiferski wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how is that any different from creating an image from scratch? If I make a logo and use it for my business, but it turns out to be very similar to one already being used by another company, it’s the same situation. I think the main concern here is with the top 1,000 or so brands/copyrights which seem fairly straightforward to deal with using the method I described.

It's plagiarism ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDp3cB5fHXQ ). It's not the same situation. You can't possibly expect someone to be exposed to the entirety of the internet like ChatGPT is. It is a matter of scale. If you still think they are the same thing, the industrial revolution was about scale and had transformative impacts in the society.

ChatGPT is not intelligent.

It's the user's responsibility to ensure they aren't infringing on copyright. If you are producing creatives for pay, you absolutely shouldn't be right-click saving images and using directly off the web whether you got it from DALL-E or a Google search.

Who cares about plagarism? Plagarism is a made up boogeyman created by high school English teachers.

If the work is sufficiently composed of your own thoughts, the fact you used someone else's structure for part of it is not a problem as long as it isn't your entire work or entirely derivative of one work.

If I use a Coca-Cola bottle cap as structure in a sculpture, that doesn't mean I am infringing on Coca-Cola's copyright. I still had to mold my original work to work with it.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#360

Post by belter »

Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

Maybe there is a middle ground that can be navigated. Keeping filters on. Interestingly, AWS is offering defense against copyright claims under the Service Terms although with some conditions.

https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/

See items as of 50.10 and 50.10.1 that I reproduce here:

"50.10. Defense of Claims and Indemnity for Indemnified Generative AI Services. AWS Services may incorporate generative AI features and provide Generative AI Output to you. “Generative AI Output” means output generated by a generative artificial intelligence model in response to inputs or other data provided by you. “Indemnified Generative AI Services” means, collectively, generally available features of Amazon CodeWhisperer Professional, Amazon Titan Text Express, Amazon Titan Text Lite, Amazon Titan Text Embeddings, Amazon Titan Multimodal Embeddings, AWS HealthScribe, Amazon Personalize, Amazon Connect Contact Lens, and Amazon Lex. The following terms apply to the Indemnified Generative AI Services:

50.10.1. Subject to the limitations in this Section 50.10, AWS will defend you and your employees, officers, and directors against any third-party claim alleging that the Generative AI Output generated by an Indemnified Generative AI Service infringes or misappropriates that third party’s intellectual property rights, and will pay the amount of any adverse final judgment or settlement."

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