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Why every microwave sucks these days

moth.monster

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Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#351

Post by JohnFen »

crazygringo wrote: post #303
ForkMeOnTinder wrote: post #11

As a chronic comparison shopper, this is a first-world problem that's near and dear to my heart. I think the reason microwaves (and appliances in general) suck is because comparison shopping is so hard. I wish I could get a list of all microwaves and filter by criteria such as: - Does the +30 seconds button start cooking immediately, or do you have to also press "start" afterwards? - Does it beep every 30 seconds aft…

In case it helps, I've run into the same types of problems frequently, and YouTube reviews are a godsend. Random people actually film themselves unboxing and using the product, and you can watch what buttons they have to press, etc. Also you can virtually always download the manual as a PDF. Of course that's not a list, and it takes a lot of work. It's deeply unfortunate -- somebody like Amazon could actually impleme…

> somebody like Amazon could actually implement the kind of comparison matrix you're talking about

Would that be valuable, though? Could Amazon do this in a useful and non-manipulative way? I have doubts.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#352

Post by JohnFen »

lb1lf wrote: post #158
pcl wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I used to have a microwave and oven stacked on top of each other. Both had an LCD, and so some horrible PMs somewhere presumably had entire sets of meetings to spec out the clock feature. The microwave would not function if the time and AM/PM values were not set. (As far as I could tell, there was no way to actually ever see the AM/PM value after setting it!) So. Every time the power went out, I would be c…

My Siemens oven wanted an Internet connection on first power up. I fired off an E-mail to Siemens, stating that there was ONE feature which could tempt me into granting it access: NTP support. Much to my surprise, I got an enthusiastic reply from an engineer stating that this would be rolled out in a future firmware update. Fingers crossed.

> My Siemens oven wanted an Internet connection on first power up.

I hadn't thought of that. I'll add that to my list of reasons why I will not buy an appliance that wants to connect to a network.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#353

Post by JohnFen »

cassianoleal wrote: post #252
kevincox wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention having to update the time every DST transition otherwise you have a wrong clock which is worst than no clock at all.

I usually set such clocks to some random time that's so off you would never mistake it for the real thing.

I do this as well. It works well for me.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#354

Post by JohnFen »

Baeocystin wrote: post #179
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want a microwave with an analog dial for time and a switch for low, med, high. They can keep the computer.

Decades ago, my college microwave was an ~800 watt unit that had a large, analog dial, and an actual bell that dinged once (and only once) when it was done. That's it, no other settings. Zero displays, other than the pointer on the dial as it clicked down. I still miss it.

Honestly. That's pretty close to the perfect UI for a microwave.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#355

Post by JohnFen »

graywh wrote: post #315
stevage wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ideal microwave would have two buttons. 1: The first two times you push it, it sets the timer to 0:30 and starts cooking. The next time, adds 0:30. Each time after that, it adds 1 minute and starts cooking. 2. Reset the timer to 0. And a door latch which stops cooking. I don't need power levels, or more precise timing, or any of that other stuff.

but power levels are amazing for reheating (around 50%) and defrosting (around 25%) and I would argue these are two of the major reasons to use a microwave

Power levels are essential to me. I thought all microwave ovens were borderline useless to heat/cook food unless you don't care about how the food comes out. Learning to use power levels really improved the usefulness of the machine.

Particularly for defrosting things and softening butter.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#356

Post by thfuran »

lazide wrote: post #325
thfuran wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of electric ranges do the same thing, which is incredibly annoying. I mean, the 60 Hz is right there ; why are they blasting in 10 second intervals?

I suspect for electric ranges they've historically used relays instead of solid state triacs or the like? [ https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/279752/why-a... ] If so, relays have significant switching times and limited cycle counts due to arcing - especially under load. Enough that sub-second switching times will wear them out pretty quickly, and also be annoyingly loud. At the power levels we're talkin…

SCRs are used for industrial stuff with much larger loads than a consumer stove. Regular relays definitely are the wrong thing to use for high speed switching though.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#357

Post by theamk »

anjel wrote: post #64
da768 wrote: post #14

Got a Breville recently, seemed like the only units that weren't the same as every others out there... Not sure it's more durable, but at least it's super quiet, I can mute beep sounds, I can change time and power while food is cooking, and it's got a stainless interior so there's no cheap paint that'll start falling off after a few months.

My fridge, Drip Coffee Maker and Toast, 3 devices, from 3 different manufacturers all use the same three beeps (same pitch, same time delay between beeps) so its ambiguous to deduce if my toast or coffee is ready or if my fridge door isn't entirely closed. But hey, great component pricing on that beep chip.

It is not as unlikely as you might think... The cheaper buzzers have a single, preferred frequency (like [0] has 2.4KHz). And engineers like round numbers for time delays.

So I can imagine a spec which says "do a cheapest buzzer on its preferred frequency, 1 second period, 50% duty cycle, 3 times" being independently written in 3 different engineering offices, and multiple devices ending up with identical beeps.

[0] https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pui-audio-inc/AT-...

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#358

Post by harel »

account42 wrote: post #341
harel wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on a daily basis, it doesn't affect me. Personally. I don't care. That's the honest answer. On days I do care, I have my means to be undetected. When the ads bother me, I switch on the pihole. Some sites don't work with pihole enabled so sometimes it's either off or I create exceptions. But I like Chrome. The convenience I get from chrome is invaluable to me. No other browser can give me that exactly. But all…

I too do not care about the environment because a litle polltion won't make a difference. And I don't bother with a retirement fund because I make enough money for my needs right now so why care about the future.

These are bad analogies. I can block ads on the net and still use chrome. I can choose whether ads bother me or not. I can choose if I want/agree to be tracked. My choice doesn't hurt anyone. You want to fight the ads - take on the ad networks. Provide an alternative. Without an alternative it's just a cardboard sign with some text.

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#359

Post by smaudet »

eduction wrote: post #350
smaudet wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article and are probably new at life, or just out of touch. Microwaves should last for decades, this is the same type of thing that you may have heard your parents complain about "I had a can opener that I got from my mother and it just broke, the five new ones I bought same price all broke within a year". There is really nothing complex about one. It's a timer connected to some voltage equ…

> the thing falls apart every 6 months. Where do you get this? Microwaves do not fall apart every six months. I had one that we had to replace after 4 or 5 years because we didn't clean the spills enough. We liked the quality enough we replaced with the exact same model. You mention you think I'm young even though I said I was a kid in the 80s. I think it's actually young people who tend to romanticize old stuff. Tho…

>You mention you think I'm young.

Young or out of touch. Either just bought a microwave and it hasn't failed yet or old and have one that's lasted 5-8 years and don't have a new crappy one yet.

>The best evidence that the quality is fine today is that, by the article's own testimony

He said/she said. This is all assertion by opinion without facts. That said, it appears a year ago the trend was downward, for multiple appliance types, in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/220020/average-life-expe...

Anecdotally, modern appliances tend to break after only a couple years (based on reports I hear from friends co-workers, etc.). More cheap shit from China/etc. (my fridge drawers are plastic and snapped about 8 months into usage, something that should have a 13-14 year lifespan, and of course, is out of warranty already).

Trying to produce a chart of microwaves bought and produced in 2020 and how long they've lasted is much harder, and honestly you're bullshitting at least as much if not more than me here - plugging your ears and pretending everything is fine is less honest and not at all observant. Combining the facts I do have (actually decreasing lifetimes over a decade) and people complaining more, and an effective monopoly due to capitalism, I would say the reasonable conclusion is that actually no, microwaves today are not generally fine.

> There's a reason no one is doing that.

The reason is not what you think it is. Nobody owns microwave makers or microwave factories, so people just generally accept gradually shittier shit. People buying things is not people being happy with what they bought. There's a big big difference. Inflation remains at an all time high and people are pretty pissed about how much everything costs already - the system has already started to fail.

> If they really sucked someone would go in and make a better one and make a bunch of money.

Sure, if there are some millionaires with money to spare maybe they'll make some cheap reliable microwaves. But they won't make a ton of money. And since, nobody's interested in making reliable microwaves, and they have other things they are interested in doing (due to capitalism), microwaves continue to get shittier and shittier.

This is the whole point of the article, which maybe you'd have grasped if you weren't all "and they dare to question capitalism those damn dirty hippie socialists".

Re: Why every microwave sucks these days

#360

Post by harel »

93po wrote: post #342
harel wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't stop an advertiser driven web. Only an alternative approach that maintain provider profits. Adverts exist because we refuse to pay for every service. This doesn't offer an alternative, but presumes to know better by removing user's choice.

The internet doesn't have to be commercialized. Content like this would exist just fine without profits. "Adverts exist because we refuse to pay for every service" No, adverts exist largely because of poor quality content that ranks high in google and does everything possible to give readers the least amount of information in the slowest way possible. I would gladly pay to visit websites that shared a common ethical…

Content like that will exist, and have existed before. But large scale operations will not. Search engines, LLMs, social networks. They need a lot of money to run at scale. LLMs charge a subscription. Kagi is doing search engine which is paid (and not bad). If they all started charging pretty soon we'll be paying through the nose for everything. Ads offset that. I pay Spotify, Amazon, OpenAI, Netflix, Diskey, and I'm considering paying Kagi. But I can't pay every single content provider I use... it will never end. I accept the ads where I can and pay where I cannot. I have a choice sometimes and I exercise it. I. Not some content site that makes the choice for me. That is my only point here.
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