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George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#351

Post by drewcoo »

raz32dust wrote: post #263
mbb70 wrote: post #24

One I recently heard was "conducting a rif" == "conducting a reduction in force" == "firing people". Soft language is alway to the benefit of the speaker, to assuage guilt or obfuscate intent. It's always to the detriment of the listener.

How is "firing people" more clear in intent than "Reduction in force"? Reduction in force/cutting costs is usually the intent. People getting fired is a side effect. "Firing people" is a more vivid picture, which is exactly why it is not the right term - it's too personal a term for something that usually is not personal. Performance-based layoffs = Firing. Cost/business-outlook-based layoffs = RIFs.

And why are they a "force" when they're being fired, but they're "resources" when they're not.

I'd like to be considered a "force" while I'm still working there. Capes as swag would be cool, too.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#352

Post by jonathanlb »

deanCommie wrote: post #256

In an abstract sense, I'm not a fan of people rolling out quotes from nuanced creative societal thinkers like George Carlin to use in a modern context. The reason is because people use it for whatever agenda fits. It's a Rorschach. Cons see these quotes and think it's applicable to "PC culture" and think George Carlin would tell kids to toughen up. Libs see these quotes and think it's applicable to "truthiness" and t…

I'd argue that the very reason Carlin's observations are so widely cited is that they tap into enduring aspects of human behavior and societal norms, which makes them applicable across time and political spectrums.

The fact that people from various political backgrounds find resonance in Carlin's words isn't a point against their current applicability. Rather, it underscores the universality of the issues he tackled- whether "PC culture" or "post-truth" narratives, we're still talking about the manipulation and policing of language and thought.

Moreover, the idea that we can't know what Carlin would have said about today's issues is beside the point. The value in revisiting his observations isn't in speculating about what Carlin would have said about XYZ today, but in applying his insights as a lens through which to examine our own time.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#353

Post by poorlyknit »

jacquesm wrote: post #218
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: In German the words for knowledge ('Wissen') and wit/joke ('Witz') share the same root.

It's fun, and they share the two first letters but it's not a fact: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wissen#German From Middle High German and Old High German wizzan, from Proto-West Germanic witan, from Proto-Germanic witaną, from Proto-Indo-European wóyde (“to see, to know”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Witz#Etymology From Middle High German witz, from Old High German wizzi, from Proto-West Germanic witi, from Pro…

Then you click on wóyde and see that it's the

> Root stative of the root *weyd-.

:)

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#354

Post by abdullahkhalids »

seabass-labrax wrote: post #311
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wiki page on climate change [1] explains that climate change was already a growing to be preferred term earlier than Frank Luntz memo. Which I think is correct because it is much more accurate. There is a lot more to climate change than global warming. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change#Terminology

"Rapid climate change" is what I would say is the most specific term, because climates change naturally over time, but usually do so slowly enough that there is no risk to individuals. The kind of climate change due to human interactions is so rapid that individuals are at risk, for instance those who live in low-lying coastal areas. Species evolve when there is slow climate change, but rapid changes make whole clade…

Well, the term used for 'climate change due to human interactions' is anthropogenic climate change. Which plays exactly into George Carlin said.

Why use 'anthropogenic climate change' which a regular person won't know the meaning of instead of 'human-caused climate change' or something.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#355

Post by rootusrootus »

jimbobimbo wrote: post #321
tptacek wrote: post #128

Just for fun, from the first example: * Toilet paper -> bathroom tissue --- sure, a softening of the language. * Sneakers -> running shoes --- not a softening; sneakers aren't the same as running shoes, and "sneaker" was a regionalism (it's "gym shoe" where I grew up). * False teeth -> dental appliance --- a softening, though a welcome one in this case. * Medicine -> medication --- a softening (a nominalization of a…

Certified pre-owned is really a brand new car for a lower price for all intents and purposes. This is a term of art if you will, not softening of the term "used car". Manufactured home can also be a far cry from what the house trailer is.

> Certified pre-owned is really a brand new car for a lower price for all intents and purposes.

CPO is really a used car with a higher price for all intents and purposes. It got inspected, that is all. Not refurbished.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#356

Post by wolrah »

jimbobimbo wrote: post #321
tptacek wrote: post #128

Just for fun, from the first example: * Toilet paper -> bathroom tissue --- sure, a softening of the language. * Sneakers -> running shoes --- not a softening; sneakers aren't the same as running shoes, and "sneaker" was a regionalism (it's "gym shoe" where I grew up). * False teeth -> dental appliance --- a softening, though a welcome one in this case. * Medicine -> medication --- a softening (a nominalization of a…

Certified pre-owned is really a brand new car for a lower price for all intents and purposes. This is a term of art if you will, not softening of the term "used car". Manufactured home can also be a far cry from what the house trailer is.

> Certified pre-owned is really a brand new car for a lower price for all intents and purposes.

Not even close. CPOs are usually lease turn-ins or another trade-in with relatively low mileage for its age, but we're still usually talking about 2-3 years old with 30k or so miles. It's basically "used with an extended factory warranty".

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#357

Post by rootusrootus »

trgn wrote: post #343
_dain_ wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With proper road design, traffic fatalities can be reduced to a negligible rate. Oslo famously achieved zero per year. Since roads can be designed with this degree of safety, it follows that high rates of fatalities are a result of poor road design, and hence not unforeseeable accidents. "Accident" is actually softening language -- it diminishes the agency of the driver, and the designer of the road. "Traffic collisi…

Yep, "hit by a car" is the perfect example of fetishization, the attribution of agency to inanimate objects. Note to that it will be the cyclist that will hit the old lady, never the bicycle. The bicycle, even though as old as the car, has resisted this fetishization. It's really curious, which objects cast the spell, and which don't.

I've definitely heard people talk about getting hit by bikes.

I think the distinction, to the extent it exists, might have a lot to do with what constitutes the majority of mass. If you get hit by an 18 pound bike with a 160 pound rider, you really got hit more by the rider than the bike. But if you get hit by a 3000 pound car with a 160 pound driver, you definitely got hit more by the car than the driver.

However, depending on ideological viewpoint, it might be tempting to read more into the language.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#358

Post by rootusrootus »

rpmisms wrote: post #149
Tao3300 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with "retarded" was that it became a pejorative. It's also just a harsh sounding word.

Retarded means "slowed down". It's a very good word, and even better as an insult.

It'll also get you banned pretty fast in the majority of subreddits, despite the fact that very few people today (and even fewer who use reddit) were ever legitimately referred to as retarded back in the day.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#359

Post by imgabe »

dopidopHN wrote: post #312
imgabe wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing food at the right price and on the right schedule is important. It is no good to produce food people can’t afford or that bankrupts the producer. It is no good to produce food only after people are starving and riots have broken out. What kind of profit margins do you imagine food producers are making? This is not Google where they sell little ads at a 30% margin. It’s a commodity business with a lot of com…

Absolutely, price and timing are important. I have a simple question: Do you think industrial meat factory are needed to feed us comfortably and affordably. And by us I mean humanity. Not the US, not the west. All of us on this rock.

I don’t know. But I do know that the food supply chain is not something you mess around with lightly because if you screw it up literally tens of millions of people could die in a famine.

So, before anyone decides we need to implement some “small change” the burden is on them to prove that it won’t kill everyone. The burden is not on me to prove that the thing that’s currently feeding us all is the only conceivable way to do it.

If you think you have a more humane technique that will produce meat just as efficiently, by all means, open a farm and use it. If it really is better and more profitable I’m sure the industry will be happy to adopt it.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#360

Post by rootusrootus »

0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #324
apricot wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, one often hears "He is special needs" said by people who think they are being politically correct. But that's awfully wrong. He might have special needs, but he is not needs. He is a person. To me, that's a lot more dehumanizing than saying "retarded". Then they'll say "but you know what I mean". That's the point, exactly.

The ultimate culmination being certain subreddits where the banned "retarded" has been replaced by the homonym "regarded", such that referring to someone as "highly regarded" is understood to mean the former, not the latter.

At some point we may collectively realize that controlling language in such a way is impossible. People will just find alternative ways to express exactly the same sentiment.
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