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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#351

Post by matsemann »

sundvor wrote: post #259
Analemma_ wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you tied tickets to names and required ID at the venue (allowing refunds in case you couldn't make it), this wouldn't work and scalping would basically end overnight. The fact that neither Ticketmaster nor the performers nor the venues has ever taken this simple step is the proof that it's not in their interest to do so. Note that events where the promoters are actually interested in having people show up instead…

Yup if you applied for a refund, your ticket(s) could go back in the pool for someone wanting to get one/some last minute. If it/they are picked up, you get your money back minus transaction fees and perhaps a small penalty, and if it doesn't, you don't - but at least you tried and someone else had a chance to get it. Ticketmaster obviously doesn't GAF / care. (The above was for a last few hours or days cancellation…

This is how Ticket master works in Norway, where it's illegal to sell above face value.

Or, more specifically you set your own price with the max being what you bought it for.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#352

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #221

The Grateful Dead comes up now and again on HN. They played 522 shows in 1972 alone, and averaged 100 per year from the mid 60s to mid 70s. In the 80s and 90s the average was somewhere around 80 per year. They sold a lot of tickets and consistently sold out. Anyone remember the system they used, as I recall we just called it "mail order". Of course there was scalping, but as I recall the system generally seemed to re…

Correction: ~88 shows in 1972 not "522" (WTF)

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#353

Post by bennettbackward »

deepspace wrote: post #310
johnnyanmac wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would we go back to the days where some people camp out for days to get in first? I wonder how much worse it'd be in times where everyone is connected and you can google all the details and timings needed.

> Would we go back to the days where some people camp out for days to get in first? Yes, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Dedicated fans get in first.

That or those who can afford to pay people to stand in line for them: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18223836/p...

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#354

Post by Nursie »

fps-hero wrote: post #27
capableweb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists generally want to have a diverse crowd in terms of disposable income, they don't want to have a crowd of just the people who can/will pay the most.

Every action directed at making tickets more affordable will have the opposite effect of making scalping more profitable. Im amazed that a reverse auction style approach hasn’t caught on, when you are capacity limited it seems nearly optimal for extracting profit and kills the ticket scalping business model.

Not every action.

Some festivals avoid it by requiring ID to be linked to the ticket and banning resale (though they may allow refund).

It’s funny, but “extracting maximum profit” isn’t the only motivation some people have in life. Especially when it comes to cultural events.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#355

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #329
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #221

The Grateful Dead comes up now and again on HN. They played 522 shows in 1972 alone, and averaged 100 per year from the mid 60s to mid 70s. In the 80s and 90s the average was somewhere around 80 per year. They sold a lot of tickets and consistently sold out. Anyone remember the system they used, as I recall we just called it "mail order". Of course there was scalping, but as I recall the system generally seemed to re…

> They played 522 shows in 1972 alone That is insane. How is that possible? Thats 1.43 shows per day. Its hard to imagine 2 shows per day, let alone traveling. That sounds exhausting.

Yes, it's insane, it's not possible and it's a sloppy error. Meant to cite 1970 not 1972. setlist.fm has 139 for 1970 but I bet there are a few more.

Apologies for the inadvertence.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#356

Post by mock-possum »

deepspace wrote: post #310
johnnyanmac wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would we go back to the days where some people camp out for days to get in first? I wonder how much worse it'd be in times where everyone is connected and you can google all the details and timings needed.

> Would we go back to the days where some people camp out for days to get in first? Yes, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Dedicated fans get in first.

I think that’s a pretty privileged way of framing it

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#357

Post by magicalhippo »

rs999gti wrote: post #226
iambateman wrote: post #215

I think there’s a massive point which gets missed on this question… A lot of these tickets get resold on the platforms themselves. If a reseller buys the ticket, and then sells it again to the end user, Ticketmaster gets paid twice. This point results in at least hundreds of millions in revenue. Now, if one of the platforms “cracks down” and makes it harder to buy and sell people will prefer another platform. So plat…

Simple fix then, ban reselling. The artist and TM still get the revenue, but the scalper gets inventory they can't move. What about the fans? Similar to airlines, let people buy standby tickets, at the event, check attendance, if there is space let the stand bys in. TM still gets paid twice, scalper has garbage, and fans get in. What about fans who can't go? Buy the insurance at checkout, if you can't go the insuranc…

> Simple fix then, ban reselling.

In Norway they introduced a law[1] that forbids reselling for a higher price than that printed on the ticket.

I do recall there was a lot of talk about scalping in the years before this law, and I haven't heard much since. I also noticed a drastic decrease of scalpers trying to sell tickets outside the venue.

[1]: https://lovdata.no/dokument/NL/lov/2007-06-29-86

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#358

Post by TrackerFF »

Here in Norway we had a go at the problem by making it illegal to charge more for tickets to sports and cultural events, than what they cost new.

You can take the seller to small-claims court and sue the seller for the difference.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#359

Post by charcircuit »

emodendroket wrote: post #304
charcircuit wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing embarrassing about a Dutch auction. What's the point of generating hype by selling out tickets? All of the tickets get sold out either way, it's just that now more fans end up with tickets instead of scalpers.

The next location or tour people are highly incentivized to snap up the tickets as soon as possible rather than waiting. This can't be the first you've heard of such a strategy.

If it sells out either way, then you will want to buy it before it sells out in both scenarios. It's just in the action scenario you can be sure you will get a ticket.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#360

Post by RugnirViking »

nonethewiser wrote: post #324
nomilk wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this recently, and came up with two possible reasons: 1. The enjoyment of attendees can be partly dependent on the enthusiasm of other attendees. Consider the extremes: an audience entirely comprised of people who hardly know the artist, but can afford it Vs an audience comprised of only die-hard fans, irrespective of their ability to afford a ticket. The first has a flat atmosphere, the second,…

> The enjoyment of attendees can be partly dependent on the enthusiasm of other attendees. Consider the extremes: an audience entirely comprised of people who hardly know the artist, but can afford it Vs an audience comprised of only die-hard fans, irrespective of their ability to afford a ticket. The first has a flat atmosphere, the second, a special one. Higher ticket prices would lead to more diehard fans > A simp…

> Higher ticket prices would lead to more diehard fans

no? personal utility doesn't work that way in the real world... We have such drastic inequality that $200 is literally impossible for a huge fraction of the population wheras to some people its an afterthought to spend for a laugh. You can literally notice it in a venue when ticket prices are higher, the atmosphere is different, the clothing is different, the energy of the dancing, the singing

profile of somebody with money to spend: 40+, knowledge worker, drained of energy, has a lot of things going on in life

profile of the kind of fan that makes your show trendy: <30, sporadic employment, excess energy, impulsive, carefree

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