Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

southseattleemerald.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 472 posts

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#351

Post by rcme »

sam0x17 wrote: post #337
rcme wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is the implication. Starting something requires raising money and organizing things. Generally, at the start, only a small number of people care to do this work. And once they do it, why would they give their ownership stake away to their employees when they could just keep it for themselves?

Practically anyone already wanting to work at such a place would care to do it with the proper resources. Imagine if you could easily get a government grant to start such a co-op...

Even if we're imaging a scenario with free government money, I'm not sure a co-op makes sense because of the financial incentives at the heart of capitalism. Imagine you could get government money to start a co-op or take private investment and maintain a large ownership stake in the business? Isn't the upside way higher for you if you go the private investment route?

Of course, the government could subsidize co-ops to the degree that financial incentives of starting a co-op outweigh the financial incentives from starting a traditional business, and maybe they should do that, but it's not how our curent market is structured.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#352

Post by smcl »

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay

You seem to be suggesting that workers are cartoonishly naive and have ridiculous demands that cannot simply be met. When in reality they usually just want a living wage, a bit more input on shift planning, things like this. People aren't generally stupid, and if they can get it together enough to form a worker-owned co-op they're not likely to immediately run it into the ground doing stupid stuff like giving themselves a 1000% wage increase.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#353

Post by secretsatan »

rcme wrote: post #328
fouc wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone else had to get it off the ground implying what? that "workers" can't start something? Even if we imagine there's a category of people that are suited to be "starters" or "entrepreneurs" that category is still plenty numerous, easily 10-35% of the population, if not more.

Yes that is the implication. Starting something requires raising money and organizing things. Generally, at the start, only a small number of people care to do this work. And once they do it, why would they give their ownership stake away to their employees when they could just keep it for themselves?

It strikes me that an argument against that is that it is too expensive to setup a business

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#355

Post by talldatethrow »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #262
exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay This is one of the most interesting parts of business to me. How do a bunch of people below the "head honcho/top dog" collectively agree "you're right, I don't selfishly look out for myself and think I'm worth $99999999/hr, that person does…

I worked in car sales for a decade, being as good as #5 in the US for a large brand.

One year I made $260k, more than anyone that actually worked above me at the automall including the CPA comptroller and GM (the other brands at the 'automall' had a bad year while mine had a breakout year due to new models).

I started a year before cash for clunkers came out. I basically was making $200k a year after learning the ropes for 6 months. The owner that year lost over a million dollars.

Not all compensation is based on hierarchy. Commission sales and performance based pay has its advantages.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#356

Post by dagw »

BartjeD wrote: post #346
spookthesunset wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if they start hiring “non share packages employees” it kinda stops sounding like worker owned and more like owners and workers, eh? Seems to defeat the purpose of being worker owned. Maybe if you have a vesting period of something. But even then it is one employee, one vote or is voting dependent on something else like number of shares?

Just because the name says worker co-op doesn't mean every employee has to be vested. In the Netherlands a coop is an acutal legal structure that businesses may adopt. It will surprise you to hear that we even a big bank which is: A co-op. The core characteristic of a co-op isn't that the workers all have shares. It's that they have members and that the members instead of the shareholders may receive payouts based on…

It will surprise you to hear that we even a big bank which is: A co-op.

There are lots of those types of co-op banks in the US, as well as other large businesses run as the type of co-op you're talking about. That is however a competently different thing than what is being discussed here.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#357

Post by talldatethrow »

roughly wrote: post #161
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #65

The Seward Cafe in Minneapolis has running successfully as a "cooperatively owned, collectively operated restaurant and community-oriented venue" for 49 years. https://www.sewardcafe.com

Cheeseboard in Berkeley has been a successful co-op since 1971: https://cheeseboardcollective.coop/ I always enjoy these kinds of articles - "Could this radical new way of doing things ever succeed?" where the "radical new way" has a history going back to before the Reagan revolution. We're a really kind of unimaginative people when it comes to talking about how one arranges things in society.

I used to love cheeseboard. After covid, it's like they hate being there. They cut the days open down to 4 a week, short hours, and basically act like they're doing you a favor serving you. But not in a smug way, more like they're an unhappy slave. Ruined some of the charm of the place.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#358

Post by JamesBarney »

sam0x17 wrote: post #337
rcme wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is the implication. Starting something requires raising money and organizing things. Generally, at the start, only a small number of people care to do this work. And once they do it, why would they give their ownership stake away to their employees when they could just keep it for themselves?

Practically anyone already wanting to work at such a place would care to do it with the proper resources. Imagine if you could easily get a government grant to start such a co-op...

The problem isn't the number of people willing to risk someone else's money to start a company but their own.

We could turn the government into a giant VC. I'm not bullish on the results.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#360

Post by Closi »

smcl wrote: post #352
exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay You seem to be suggesting that workers are cartoonishly naive and have ridiculous demands that cannot simply be met. When in reality they usually just want a living wage, a bit more input on shift planning, things like this. People aren't generally stupid, and if they can get it together enough to form a worker-owned c…

Well they sound like they have picked a higher base wage than average (particularly for servers) and aren’t making a profit.

Personally if it’s owner-run I would assume you would be better picking a lower base wage, then sharing profits (with the profits making up that shortfall).

That way there is also an incentive to be an owner, and the business is more stable - sounds like if they have picked high wages and low/no profit though they are running it hot and risky from a cash flow perspective.

But there aren’t profits for owners to share at the moment - possibly partially because they are overpaying on labour.

Post reply on HN