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Every phone should be able to run personal websites

rohanrd.xyz

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Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#351

Post by soulofmischief »

cvoss wrote: post #232
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

> When discussing human rights I've never heard an argument before that the ability to host a personal website on a cellphone is a human right. But, by using this phrase, you seem to be assuming your readers already agree with you that human rights is what we are discussing. As a rhetorical device, that may be effective at getting someone to back down for fear of being labeled as anti-human-rights, but it is not effe…

> I'd very much like to hear such an argument connecting cellphone websites to human rights.

The argument is that individuals must have the right to modify their devices as they see fit, barring some reasonable FTC radio restrictions which are necessary to enable fair use.

You can argue that nothing should compel a company, in a free market, to provide such a device. But the nature of human rights is that they must be defended vigilantly, or the entire industry and government will slowly move to exploit people.

If you do not guarantee freedom of speech, companies will restrict it. If you do not guarantee freedom to repair or modify a device, companies will restrict it. At some point, these practices become inescapable for the end user and they effectively lose these freedoms while entirely skipping due process and the court of law.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#352

Post by soulofmischief »

tqi wrote: post #162
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

It might feel good and noble to chide people about this stuff, but this type of hyperbolic, exaggerated grandstanding is THE reason why our society is so polarized. It is absolutely NOT slippery slope to human rights violations to talk about edge cases or to make tradeoffs. Escalating everything to such high stakes makes discussion and compromise impossible.

> It might feel good and noble to chide people about this stuff, but this type of hyperbolic, exaggerated grandstanding is THE reason why our society is so polarized.

I'm sorry, but what are you doing right now if not this?

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#353

Post by Moldoteck »

paulcole wrote: post #308
jeroenhd wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not that everyone should, it's that some people who want to, should be able to. Phones are quite powerful and can be excellent web servers on a budget.

> some people who want to, should be able to And this is a terrible argument IMO. The idea of “It’s my device, it’s my right to do exactly what I want with it” is beyond dead and buried. There are lots of things people want to do with their devices that Apple doesn’t let them do. That’s literally been Apple’s philosophy for decades and at this point it shouldn’t be surprising. Buy the Pinephone if you absolutely have…

It's been philosophy, but looks like Apple will allow sideload bc of EU. And since this will be allowed(imo running unverified apps is much more dangerous) why not treat the server thing the same way?

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#354

Post by soulofmischief »

ineedasername wrote: post #246
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

Everything that might be useful to a marginalized population should not automatically be used to rhetorically beat someone over the head in this sort of discussion. Humans rights pov to this were not remotely part of the discussion. If you have one you think is relevant to the discussion then introduce it. The way you have tried to do so here is in the tone of “I know you think you’re trying to help but clearly your…

The issue is that we must enforce these rights within the market, or we circumvent law. "Freedom of speech" doesn't matter if the user can only choose from market participants which restrict speech. There is absolutely no guarantee that "the free market will sort things out" as so many believe. The only guarantee must come from corporate restrictions which enable individual freedoms.

You could argue John Deere shouldn't be required to sell you a tractor which you can repair at home. But if you don't require that, they won't, and you've chosen to prioritize corporate needs over individual needs.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#355

Post by soulofmischief »

zerbinxx wrote: post #250
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

Almost comically hyperbolic. Today, you do have a right to host anything (within reason) you want on anything you own. You can’t be arrested for jailbreaking your phone, and you have every right to buy alternative devices if those don’t suit you. Calling this a human rights issue is like calling your ability to order a sandwich for lunch a human rights issue

> Today

Exactly. If we established all law based only on what we currently observe, without considering future implications, then we would fundamentally only be a reactive legislative system and not proactive.

> Calling this a human rights issue is like calling your ability to order a sandwich for lunch a human rights issue

No, that is a gross misrepresentation. The simple fact is that if you don't require the right for a user to modify their general computing hardware, that right will never be awarded systematically, and will in fact be repressed. It's the definition of a slippery slope, because anything can be justified from that point.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#356

Post by Moldoteck »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #238
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the longest time (maybe still but I'm out of that loop), installing Windows from a DVD left you without wifi, too; was it not an operating system?

The drivers could be acquired and installed either via CD with the hardware or found on the web. Where are my provided wifi or cellular drivers for my phone?

It's like Linux on some strange hardware, if something is missing, you code it by yourself, aosp is open source, so making lte compatible is possible for your device, just not what other ppl a interested in. Or you can use a fork that has the fix

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#357

Post by soulofmischief »

Spooky23 wrote: post #321
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

I think there’s a balance here where you have different harms. Your concern is about an intellectual ideal of full freedom to utilize a device as you see fit. That is an ideal that I am philosophically attracted to. But… you have to balance harms when dealing with the public. Security risk management for mobile is difficult and even professional practitioners fail badly at it. A billion little servers with a trillion…

Well I agree with, for example, band restrictions set by the FTC which allow fair use. Individual freedoms are only enabled by restrictions against parties who would otherwise conspire to ignore them.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#358

Post by soulofmischief »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #100
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

Is the right of a handful of people to run a web server on their phone more important than the right of millions of "unsophisticated" users to not be scammed / abused by malware? Since it's inception smart phones have been a consumer platform, used for consuming content. The platform for tinkerers already exists. It's called a PC with Linux installed. Every platform does not need to cater to your needs.

> Is the right of a handful of people to run a web server on their phone more important than the right of millions of "unsophisticated" users to not be scammed / abused by malware?

Are you familiar with the false dilemma?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

> The platform for tinkerers already exists. It's called a PC with Linux installed

I would love for you to make the case that a modern touch screen phone is not a Personal Computer. And you fail to address the very real scenario in which companies are conspiring to provide fully locked-down hardware and software ecosystems.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#359

Post by soulofmischief »

Angostura wrote: post #158
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

I'm intrigued. Should all smart refrigerators be able to run web servers? TVs? Would you want them to?

This is a complete straw-man argument and deserves no further consideration. Refrigerators are not personal computers and in this case, the less digital tech a refrigerator contains, the better.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#360

Post by [deleted] »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #100
soulofmischief wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming the best intentions from you but I'd like to point out two things: 1. When discussing human rights (which apply to technological freedoms) reducing a need to "an edge case" is the basis of marginalization, defined as "treatment of a person, group, or concept as insignificant or peripheral". Therefore, it is never appropriate to rely on such language to prove a point, especially when we are discussing sof…

Is the right of a handful of people to run a web server on their phone more important than the right of millions of "unsophisticated" users to not be scammed / abused by malware? Since it's inception smart phones have been a consumer platform, used for consuming content. The platform for tinkerers already exists. It's called a PC with Linux installed. Every platform does not need to cater to your needs.

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