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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#351

Post by FirmwareBurner »

rojosewe wrote: post #332
OO000oo wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

He's referring to the difference in wealth between East and West Germany which is arguably the cause of many political and social issues in Germany. The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity. My guess is that you are referring to the difference in wealth between India and Germany. I'm not sure that the pearl clutching was helpful. It would have been better to clarify your assumptions or If indeed…

> The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity.

Money in the region would help but I don't see it happening since Poland is just a few km away and a more lucrative target for attracting investments from west Germany due to having less red tape, and lower taxes and regulations.

East Germany can't compete with that so it seems it be forever be this "desert" in between west Germany and Poland where nobody wants to live and invest.

I see this as a fault of the German gov for not making east Germany an attractive place for investors.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#352

Post by dahwolf »

berkes wrote: post #204
rjzzleep wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

> the leadership was mocking China's capability to build their own domenstic supply chain Well, ASML is primarily and rightly very concerned that once "China" has their machines they'll attempt to reverse engineer them, ignore any western patents and IP and try to build 'Chinese chip machines'. It's happened to many industries, from Lego to fashion to hi tech. Hell, apparently there's even Chinese Knock-off Movies. S…

ASML's EUV machines cannot be reverse engineered.

There's over a 100K parts, several of them from exclusive suppliers. You'd have to recreate several industries from scratch or somehow bribe all suppliers. You will absolutely fail to recreate the parts at all but even then if you hypothetically would, you can't put the machine together as if it's just a few bolts. It requires a team in the know months to do it, but you're not in the know. The tolerance for error is near-zero. Installing, configuring, running the machine, both hardware and software is extraordinarily complex.

None of this is a secret. The Chinese government announced a multi-billion dollar program to try and recreate such a machine from scratch. Expected timeline is 20 years with a highly uncertain outcome.

ASML does not have a concern to export to China, they want to export to China but are pressured to not do so by the US government.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#353

Post by read_if_gay_ »

nxobject wrote: post #350
blueflow wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do an s/racist/homophobic/ and you have a justification for being a jerk to muslim immigrants.

I'm a little confused -- how do we get from "it takes one homophobic reaction to deeply affect someone", to "if someone is deeply affected by one homophobic reaction from a population, we should be a jerk to the entire population?"

that is exactly the point being made about saxony...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#354

Post by read_if_gay_ »

mschuster91 wrote: post #347
blueflow wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do an s/racist/homophobic/ and you have a justification for being a jerk to muslim immigrants.

Ethnic Germans are just as much a threat to LGBT people than fanatic Muslims are, and it's not just the former GDR where reactionary and fascist attitudes bloom. I had to spend half a year in the ass cracks of Niederbayern... not something I'd like to repeat. People openly talking "something like that (i.e. LGBT) wouldn't have been a thing under Hitler" over their beers or someone shouting Sieg and the full pub respo…

sure, bavaria is as bad as egypt or saudi arabia for gay people, suuure

god this place has gone down the shitter

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#355

Post by t43562 »

coliveira wrote: post #344
t43562 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make Taiwan less critical makes it less attractive as a target - China won't be able to damage the US so much by taking Taiwan. It will be harder for China to force other people to accept their action.

This doesn't make Taiwan less critical for China. They will continue to defend Taiwan as part of China for the foreseeable future.

Not less critical but you see if they steal something the rest of the world needs then they can hold the world to ransom but if the rest of the world has alternatives then they can't. That has to change their calculations about when and how they will make a move.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#356

Post by 01100011 »

sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

I'm wondering if these offshore fab announcements from TSMC are more like unserious offers intended to delay other countries from pushing harder to establish local semiconductor industries. TSMC is already delaying the Arizona plant in the US. Maybe that was their intent from the beginning?

"But they've spent X billions of dollars." Yes but this is irrelevant when facing off an existential threat to their business and the overall economy and security of Taiwan. Taiwan, like Israel, is run by cunning folks. They wouldn't have survived this long otherwise.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#357

Post by mattnewton »

xgl5k wrote: post #346
flo123456 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

Left leaning and racist aren't mutually exclusive.

For real, plenty of authoritarian leftists in the world who think the only path to socialism is through an autocracy with a heavy sprinkle of ethnic nationalism. But I think the commenter meant the more lib-left in europe, the kind who would be friends with anarchists.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#358

Post by read_if_gay_ »

Herring wrote: post #324
flo123456 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

That's not how it works. There can be a lot of good people, but all you need is one in-your-face racist encounter to ruin your decade. It's like how even a rumor of a shark will keep you firmly on the beach.

[flagged]

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#359

Post by gramadat »

xgl5k wrote: post #346
flo123456 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

Left leaning and racist aren't mutually exclusive.

While your statement, put that generally, is certainly true, i wonder if you're familiar with leftism in Germany or in Europe in general (honest question). Antiracism and Antifascism are almost part of the core DNA of many of these circles or at least their self-perception. Doesn't mean that they necessarily live up it, of course. However, the term "left" means something quite different in Europe than compared to the popular usage of that term in the US where, i believe, a large chunk of the audience here is based.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#360

Post by Panoramix »

jupp0r wrote: post #227
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

> I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence.

So, like the US?

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