Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#351

Post by bhewes » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:35 PM UTC

etc-hosts wrote: post #219

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

> taxing the legal pot industry so highly that it was miles cheaper to buy stuff illegally no the corner the legal pot industry's problem is it's impossible for it to turn a profit. they can't deduct operating expenses from their tax liability like other businesses can, because of federal law. items like rent, payroll. they also can't use the same systems of credit management and bank accounts, because of federal law…

As someone who runs four stores in the legal pot industry in Oklahoma and turns a profit yeah not true. You can make plenty of money playing by State rules. If a company has expansion plans that rely on the interstate commerce clause then yes the feds are your problem.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#352

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:35 PM UTC

danielovichdk wrote: post #317

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

I think you should contribute a valid source for the subjective claim of this statement. "Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological." I would, and that is not based on subjective opinion, call your statement - rubbish. I will even throw you a bone. https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Madness-Deepak-Cyril-DSouza...

[deleted]

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#353

Post by VerminOctopus1 » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

It’s amazing you can log onto this website and spout utter bullshit like “assault and theft have been decriminalized in California”. It’s a totally laughable thing to say and I don’t know why no one else has called this poster out for this blatant lie.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#354

Post by HDMI_Cable » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #68

NegativeLatency wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your city is unlivable and your block is terrorized by drug addicts This is hyperbole, I live in one of the rougher neighborhoods. The city gov especially the mayor and his cronies have done nothing to actually fix problems, they just do expensive sweeps and cleanup without addressing root causes.

I'm not sure about in the United States, but here in Canada, we barely even have "good" and "bad" neighbourhoods. My city is quite well-mixed together economically. Somehow, despite that, the recent dysfunction of society -- the sharp increase in the number of homeless and the number of publicly intoxicated people -- seems to fall entirely on the poor as a consequence. They're the ones suffering it day to day. A rela…

> I'm not sure about in the United States, but here in Canada, we barely even have "good" and "bad" neighbourhoods. My city is quite well-mixed together economically.

This is a joke, right? Like, either you live in a small town not large enough to have distinct neighbourhoods, or you are so isolated as to not see the abject poverty that many live here. Take Toronto, for example. Right on Mt. Pleasant Rd. and St. Clair you have Rosedale, one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in all of Canada. If you walk down a street there, you won't find a person making less than $100K. You'll have perfectly maintained roads, bike lanes, and very good private schools (like Upper Canada College), where every kid there pays $50K a year. Go down Mt. Pleasant until it becomes Jarvis St., and continue going down until you hit Dundas St., where the average person makes minimum wage and can barely afford their apartment. And that's just a 2km difference!

Ask anyone whether they would rather live in Forest Hill (again, Toronto) or on Jane and Finch, and you'll get the same answer any time. For Montreal, ask anyone whether they would live in Westmount, or in Sainte-Marie, and again, you'll get the same answer. There absolutely are "good" and "bad" neighbourhoods in Canada, and in some cases, they're just as bad as in the United States (speaking from experience here).

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#355

Post by HDThoreaun » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

styren wrote: post #241

GeoAtreides wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to strongly support people getting fat. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in the US has made me think differently. Most people who get fat eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll say the nu…

Not sure what point you're trying to make here? Policymaking to limit access to unhealthy food isn't particularly controversial and if there weren't more pressing issues were I live I'd love for politicians to push it further.

It very much is. My city, Chicago, instituted a sugar tax. It was so unpopular that it didn't even last a couple months. I'd say it's not just controversial but outright deeply unpopular.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#356

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

Apes wrote: post #335

lotsofpulp wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how about payment for surgery for coronary artery disease/type 2 diabetes medications/etc?

I guess for you that might be an upside of the American Healthcare system - fat people pay more for health insurance, and have to pay money out of pocket for their surgery and medications.

No, they do not. After age 65, the federal government picks up the hospital tab via Medicare, and depending on how many qualified assets you have, Medicaid helps with the rest.

Before 65, health insurance can only use a few factors to determine premiums, but none are related to one's health.

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/

>Factors that can’t affect premiums

>They also can’t take your current health or medical history into account. All health plans must cover treatment for pre-existing conditions from the day coverage starts.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#357

Post by hintymad » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

wittenbunk wrote: post #298

hintymad wrote: post #288

Funny. Chinese people were plagued by opium more than a 100 years ago. The Qing government, no matter how corrupted and useless they were, were willing to go to wars with British for fighting opiums. Pictures like this are national stigma even today: https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2011/10/29/be-caref... . Yet, the US, the lighthouse of the nations on earth, thought it was okay to tolerate drugs, and it's ce…

Opiates arent decriminalized in Philadelphia, seems like your argument is more based in bias then logic

I was talking about the general tolerance towards drugs.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#358

Post by 4gotunameagain » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

It is clear that the need/desire for drugs will not disappear. Not only that, but drug usage seems to be on quite the incline.

One of the biggest problems with drugs is the paraeconomy that is created, funnelling millions to the wrong hands, and ending up with fentanyl spiked dope on the market. If we accept that the need for drugs will not go away, then they need to be legalized, controlled, taxed, and regulated so that not only the cartels aren't funded, but the state receives their profit and turns it into measures for controlling drug abuse, for offering help, etc.

Now how do we handle the general lack of meaning that the west is experiencing which is turning people into mice hitting the dopamine level forever running on the hedonistic treadmill, that's a different question.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

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Post by pests » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

jakear wrote: post #337

samketchup wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people are killed on the road in accidents caused by elderly folks than drunk drivers. I know this sounds insane, but drunk driving should be no harm no foul.

In some sense, it is. Barring random sobriety checkpoints (which are generally avoidable).

We don't have checkpoints where I live near Detroit. Are these really a thing? I've seen them in movies and TV but never experienced it.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#360

Post by sircastor » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #342

I don't even have to read the article. The US military is, if anything, serious about understanding cause and effect. They studied and learned about drug addiction during and after the Viet Nam war. What they found might seem counterintuitive. Addicted soldiers could break the habit easily once they returned home. Of course this is an oversimplification, but the idea is that circumstance has a lot to do with behavior…

Any time we have a conversation about this, my wife brings it up: People are using drugs to deal with something - often trauma of some sort. That trauma might be anything from childhood abuse to homelessness. Our society (The USA, generally speaking) is not particularly interested in helping people deal with their trauma before it becomes a problem.