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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#351

Post by klaff »

prewett wrote: post #282
pjc50 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> slow is fast, keep it at 60 if you want the milage meter to not die as quick This also works in petrol cars: the air resistance efficiency falloff is dramatic at higher speeds.

Air resistance is proportional to v^2. My dad told a story once where he was driving out west borrowing one of his brother's cars with a broken speedometer. After he got back he said to his brother, "the car just seemed to top out at a certain point" and his brother said "yeah, that's about 85 mph" (the national speed limit was 55 mph at that time). So at 85 mph the air resistance equaled the force the engine could a…

Force is proportional to square of speed but power = force*speed so proportional to speed^3.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#352

Post by caconym_ »

dinom wrote: post #329
e136 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cars have one or more clutches to put the car in neutral. This is required so the engine can idle while the car stands still, among other reasons. Electric cars don't need to idle and therefore don't have any clutches in the drivetrain. Adding clutches just for allowing the user to push around the car seems needlessly complicated and over optimizing for a scenario that will not occur for the majority of cars.

> don't have any clutches in the drivetrain Wouldn't a clutch be unnecessary in this case... a complete disconnect from the drive train should suffice, no?

That's exactly what a clutch does. They show up in all sorts of places besides the third pedal "clutch" drivers of standard transmissions are familiar with, e.g. in part-time AWD systems, traditional automatic transmissions with planetary gears, torque converters and hybrid transmissions with lockup clutches for efficient cruising, and so on.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#354

Post by rchaud »

Dalewyn wrote: post #225
malwrar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

This really is an extreme and specific example, but risks like this are why most people want lots ( lots ) of range and why gas/diesel cars won't die out any time soon. The sheer ease of mind that comes with having densely packed energy that can be replenished at a moment's notice practically anywhere should not be disregarded easily. Maybe battery tech can get there some day, but it's certainly not today.

Precisely. Gas cars have had their scandals and crises, I dont have to worry about the manufacturer juicing the fuel gauge for marketing purposes. I have been car-free for the past 12 years, but when it'll be time to move to the suburbs, I'll go with what works and is predictable.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#355

Post by mrguyorama »

nmridul wrote: post #338
malwrar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

>> (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking, and tesla’s service doesn’t have infinite coverage) Is there a service for "On demand battery charging". A mini truck carrying a generator that can be called to the location. Could charge premium from the EVs that are too tired to move.

I think AAA has something like that now

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#356

Post by dinom »

caconym_ wrote: post #352
dinom wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't have any clutches in the drivetrain Wouldn't a clutch be unnecessary in this case... a complete disconnect from the drive train should suffice, no?

That's exactly what a clutch does. They show up in all sorts of places besides the third pedal "clutch" drivers of standard transmissions are familiar with, e.g. in part-time AWD systems, traditional automatic transmissions with planetary gears, torque converters and hybrid transmissions with lockup clutches for efficient cruising, and so on.

I understand that... so you're saying something like "unlocking hubs" would not suffice? Or they'd add too much cost to the vehicle?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#357

Post by ravenstine »

vel0city wrote: post #299
ethanbond wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. Home/work plug-in is amazing , and an underrated QOL improvement over ICE, but it’s just not relevant to most of the concern around EV range. Range concern comes from either not having a charger available as a matter of daily business (street parking) or from frequently going on very long drives.

> People who are worried about range on EVs are not worried about a usecase that looks like this, obviously. But this use case covers the majority of drivers in the US. The vast majority of people I've personally talked to concerned about range could absolutely charge at home and rarely drove more than even 100 miles.

If that's true, then it may be a matter of lingering perception. As an ICE car owner who lives in LA, I see plenty of charging stations, but not necessarily when I go on drives of hundreds of miles outside the city. Of course, I may be biased given that I don't need to pay active attention to vehicle chargers. But, for me, it would be a deal breaker if I couldn't be confident that my car could still be fuelled up in Bumf*k, Nowhere.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#358

Post by lowbloodsugar »

I rented one for a week and it showed battery percentage not miles. It seems pretty stupid on Tesla's part to show the very inaccurate EPA range rather just battery percentage. And it looks like they doubled down on the stupid with these tactics.

I used to own a high hp gasoline car, and its mileage estimate would regularly be off by 50% when I drove it like I stole it. The difference is that there are gas stations everywhere.

When I drove the Tesla aggressively, it pretty quickly told me I needed to turn around and go charge some more - there were no superchargers ahead of me. You might say I was lucky that I was using navigation for my route, so that it could figure an accurate battery usage. But I wasn't lucky. Of course I put the route into the navigation system. What was the outcome? I didn't go charge it, and instead I stopped driving like a c**t. I made it to my destination and back with 17% charge left.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#359

Post by noAnswer »

sowbug wrote: post #307
berkes wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't battery tech achieve this? I have a very old petrol car (>35y) with a terrible fuel-indicator. I bring a spare 5L tank with petrol under the backseat always. An EV could achieve the same with a small portable powerbank, not? My current tank can hold some 50+L; this gives my old T3 a range of ~430km¹. When we lived in Botswana ('83, other car) we had an extra 150L spare fuel-tank instead of back-seats. We co…

That's just a UI trick, isn't it? Make 5% display as 0%, and add a solemn-looking toggle switch to select the reserve battery. (According to a random source on the web, a Model Y battery weighs 1,770 pounds, so a perfectly efficient 5%-size physical battery would add another 88 pounds to the cargo.)

> Make 5% display as 0%

That is already how it is done on all EVs. malwrar should have kept driving.

Playlist of tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIi_8OXfLeg&list=PLqKx2qnB8X...

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