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SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

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Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#351
post #204
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Words have definitions. Investment and profit, for two. You can't just handwave that away. Your conclusion is "anything could be anything" which is utterly devoid of any meaning.

Define them then, in a way that is consistent with every other law that makes use of those terms.

Do you not get taxed on your income if your paycheck is paid in bars of gold?

Would you not call purchasing something to enjoy a return from it's ownership as an investment? Whether it is a consumable, or it produces something that isn't cash?

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#353
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their entire statement of > civil law system ... does not rely on agreements, contracts, negotiations or precedents. It cannot be 'interpreted' betrays that they've never examined legal proceedings in either system. Contracts apparently don't exist in civil law, and when asked to explain the differences between "Jurisprudence Constante" and "Stare Decisis", I guess "Jurisprudence Constante" means precedent doesn't ex…

> Contracts apparently don't exist in civil law This does sound like insincere debate. Where does in my comments it says that contracts dont exist in civil law. It says civil law is not BASED on contracts, agreeements and precedents. The common law is. And no, the complications that are so beautifully and 'respectably' named in the common law dont exist in civil law. The law is always clear - if something is not cove…

Do we have a different understanding of the word "rely"?

You didn't even use the word "BASED".

When you say:

> It does not rely on agreements, contracts, negotiations or precedents.

Why would they exist conceptually if they're not relied upon?

They're obviously relied upon when.. something related to contracts is in dispute.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#354

"The S.E.C. said the world’s largest cryptocurrency exchange mixed “billions of dollars” in customer funds and secretly sent them to a separate company controlled by Binance’s founder, Changpeng Zhao." That's a criminal offense. Here's the court filing.[1] This is just a civil case for now, but expect criminal charges. "Between October 2022 and January 2023, Zhao personally received $62.5 million from one of the Bina…

The DOJ probably already has a sealed indictment and is waiting for CZ to visit an extradition friendly country, but I doubt CZ will ever do it.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#355
post #110

I remember the last post from Fred Wilson: "The Freedom To Innovate" [1]. Even if the SEC is right about Binance and others, and there are without doubt blatant and huge frauds in Web3, there are huge problems with the financial modernization within the US (and the world). Domestic wire transfers in US takes longer and are more expensive than in Europe and developing countries such as Brazil and Argentina. The SEC is…

Just because the current system sucks doesn't mean a replacement will be better. Its the responsibility of people advocating for a replacement system to explain and demonstrate why it will be better. Banks suck. But that doesn't mean crypto companies should have free reign to do whatever they want for the sake of "innovation."

> Banks suck.

Banks in Singapore provide 5 minute inter-bank settlement. Banks in NZ provide multiple intra-day settlements seven days a week. Australia's NPP settles within one minute as a typical target.

Banks are perfectly capable of this. US banks may not be.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'd answer those questions as "Yes. No. Maybe. No." So definitely not a security. 1. Is cryptocurrency an investment of money? Obviously yes, at least in the sense you have to spend money to purchase or mine it. 2. Is cryptocurrency investment in a common enterprise? No. What enterprise? Common with who? Maybe if it's a token issued by a company or something and tied to their profits somehow, but that do…

Do you seriously think that cryptocurrency becomes a billion dollar industry because...people use it to do what? exactly? Pretty much 99% of the people that put money in crypto expected the price to go up and sell. I have not seen any mention of economical use except in third world countries. In which case, crypto is just a roundabout way of charity I guess? Crypto people _say_ their technology have this and that use…

> I have not seen any mention of economical use except in third world countries.

This is peak HN, if there ever was such a thing; you do realize that the Third World (an erroneous use of the term that relates to nations that were aligned with the Soviet Union but used to denote underdeveloped nations) comprises the most of the Human population; and if figures are correct about System D [0], it is actually the 2nd largest economy in the World and growing due currency collapses and hyper-inflation being wrought around the World.

In recent literature on the informal economy, System D is the growing share of the world's economy which makes up the underground economy, which as of 2011 has a projected GDP of $10 trillion.The informal economy is usually considered as one part of a dual economy.

Seriously, this is the most typical yet horridly-informed view on this matter and gets tossed in the echo-chamber; it's like saying that the USD (or any fiat currency) is really useless because the FOREX market (the biggest Industry in the World only after Agriculture) negates its utility because people only seem to trade it.

I'll be the first to tell you that 99% of crypto is a scam but seriously just stick to something you actually understand before posting these inept diatribes.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#357
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.sec.gov/corpfin/framework-investment-contract-an...

Coinbase and the Howey test https://www.coinbase.com/blog/coinbases-staking-services-are...

They compare staking to mining. Cryptocurrency mining is a business activity that fulfills the last three criteria but mining on its own is not a security. The only confusion is whether the staked cryptocurrency counts as an investment of money.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#358

Not a Binance fan but in this context, and considering the SECs unwillingness of declaring when cryptocurrencies are securities or not, it's pretty clear that they go after Binance for strategic reasons. Not sure but I assume this is controlled by the Biden admin.

They have been very clear. Everything except bitcoin. Crypto people just don't like the response.

Have they actually cleared Bitcoin in writing?

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sane person who realizes that their job is to be thrown under the bus has two options: Either go along with it and be a conspirator, secure your means of getting away, or start talking to the law enforcement to cover your ass. The people running Binance should have realized that the first option did not happen and they should have prepared for the second option. Although it is good that this didn’t happen, SEC no…

I suspect it's very hard for people to realize that. Thinking back on my career, there were jobs I stayed at too long because I was hoping things would turn around, that I could make more of a difference than I ultimately did. That was hard enough for me to realize as a low-level worker. It has to be a fair bit harder if you've got a fancy title and a fancy salary. "It is difficult to get a man to understand somethin…

Learning how to code fizzbuzz is hard for most people, it isn't for us.

Learning basic corporate politics is hard for most people, not for prospective CEOs.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#360
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long standing in what circles? Long standing in history, long standing in diplomacy, long standing in actual freaking Louis XIV administration communique, long standing in practically everything. No offense but just because you people have a beef with Russia at the moment and they are using the term, the rest of the world is not going to change how they speak so that you dont get offended. > I don't think I've seen…

> Long standing in history, long standing in diplomacy, long standing in actual freaking Louis XIV administration communique, long standing in practically everything. That's neat, the dead are welcome to their opinions. That doesn't change where or why it's used primarily by certain parties in their English facing media. > No offense but just because you people have a beef with Russia at the moment and they are using…

> That's neat, the dead are welcome to their opinions. That doesn't change where or why it's used primarily by certain parties in their English facing media.

How does this justify removing an actual historic term from the vocabulary.

> But it clearly has a different meaning in English.

It doesnt:

> I'll admit error if you can find a source, that's not Russian

It amazes me how someone that claims any insight in the matters of law can ask for 'sources' for such a thing. It just feels crazy. Here you go:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24517581

Its not about the law, its not about the history, its the actual term used in an Anglosaxon source about how French saw the !rise of Anglosaxons! in 20th century.

This paper of the actual university of Cambridge is actually named "The Rise of the Anglo-Saxon: French Perceptions of the Anglo-American World in the Long Twentieth Century". It is the Anglosaxons using the actual scientific term to refer to the actual historic and political science concept.

> The problem is I'm having a hard time finding one on my own.

Thats amazing now. The above was the first google result for me, an avid student of history. You were unable to find anything maybe its because you dont have much interest in that direction. Or, more likely, you were totally inundated with the actual propaganda war that very Anglosaxon establishment is waging against the actual historic term just because its current enemy used it to describe, well, itself...

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