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The Never Married, a New Normal

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#351

Post by bscphil »

Jcowell wrote: post #331
zwaps wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of marriage is what makes the commitment meaningful. Of course, you can always substitute for marriage with other forms of commitment in partnerships, marriage is just a particular choice. In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain…

> In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain an enigma to you. No I think his problem is putting his assets on the line in order to have a commitment to which he think is ridiculous when he could just simply, ya know, commit.

> putting his assets on the line

People put their time, hearts, and lives on the line when they commit to another person. The risk of losing some money is a pretty tertiary one. I'm not saying it's negligible, I'm saying that the idea that you can just do away with risk in a committed relationship is pretty silly. I guess for some people the financial risk is primary, but that attitude seems to me ... I don't know, sad? If you really worry about it that much, sign a pre-nuptial agreement and move on.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#352

Post by AnimalMuppet »

chrsw wrote: post #329
throwaway1492 wrote: post #49

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…

I never got married but for me personally, I don't look at it as a choice, I look at it as an abject failure.

I don't know about that. Being married to the wrong person can be far worse than never marrying. If you never found someone who was right for you, not forcing the issue was wisdom, not failure.

(If you never could make a relationship work because you're lousy at relationships, that is more your failure. But if you're in the first paragraph, you're probably feeling that you're in the second, and you may not be.)

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#353

Post by PopAlongKid »

warmwaffles wrote: post #213
jitl wrote: post #10

My partner and I have been together for 7 years, we bought a house together, haven’t found a compelling reason to get married. Marriage is a complex and binding contract that for two high earners is a tax disadvantage. The most prominent benefits I’ve learned are some situations around visitation rights, and avoiding being compelled to testify against your spouse. It comes from a very dubious history of the husband e…

> Marriage is a complex and binding contract that for two high earners is a tax disadvantage. You can file separately.

In the U.S. tax code there are both marriage rewards and marriage penalties. Community property law (about 1/3 of U.S. population by state) further muddies the water.

"Two high earners" is not a meaningful description. Two people each earning $500K is far different than one earning $300K and one earning $700K.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#354

Post by bscphil »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #326
bscphil wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No need to risk half of my current assets and future income Most people see being in a position of vulnerability with respect to another human being whom they trust as a wonderful thing, which gives them a great deal of every day happiness. You see this vulnerability as merely negative, a threat to your individualistic pursuit of wealth ("assets and income"). You have a right to live however you want, of course, bu…

> but maybe consider the possibility that others are getting something valuable out of this that you've missed? Now apply this reasoning to all the other stupid and harmful shit people do.

Sure, why not? Trying to get inside the head of someone you don't understand or disagree with is always a valuable exercise. There's a whole movie (Trainspotting) trying to understand why people do hard drugs. People do all sorts of stupid things, but not always for reasons you or I are incapable of understanding.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#355

Post by ameminator »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #334
ameminator wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).

> Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study). This goes down a lot as you go up the socioeconomic ladder: https://flowingdata.com/2021/05/04/divorce-rates-and-income/

Most people I know earn less than $100k per year, unfortunately. Even then, having a divorce rate reach the floor at 30% seems pretty risky to me.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#356

Post by hotpotamus »

monissiddiqui wrote: post #257
hotpotamus wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a society didn't find some way to last beyond the lifespan of a human, then it wouldn't be much of a society.

It's surprising how individualistic people are in developed countries. They are literally self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool! Just goes to show "smart" does not mean wise. Apparently making sure humanity doesn't continue on to the next generation isn't considered a moral responsibility. And they get salty wondering why religious communities will be the majority throughout time. I guess these governments w…

I didn't really put much of a value judgement on it. Mostly I was thinking about my beehives and how you have to make sure the queen is reproducing or the hive will collapse from attrition within a month or so. I rather like the bees in that they don't seem to think much about meaning or morals; they just go on about their business of existence.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#357

Post by SergeAx »

throwaway1492 wrote: post #49

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…

There are lots of ways to dedicate oneself to a greater cause. I would say that marriage is one of the less, if no least impactful forms of giving back to society.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#359

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

laurencerowe wrote: post #295
throwaway1492 wrote: post #49

I’ll risk it and defend marriage to this crowd. To me getting married was about getting out of myself. As someone who got married later in life, I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Relationships were shallow and lasted only so long as convenient. By choosing to get married and intentional build a family, I knew I was sacrificing a lot of ego and choosing to give…

You seem to be describing a committed relationship? For me the significant markers of committed relationships were first moving in together, then perhaps buying a home together (in those places where that was still affordable), and then for those that wanted them and by far the most important having children together. Many of my friends and family have gotten married along the way too but it never felt like a big dea…

Marriage, apart from a nice opportunity of celebration, is a legal contract.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#360

Post by hiatus »

Dalewyn wrote: post #204
ceejayoz wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does an unhappy marriage.

The true answer is that a dysfunctional marriage negatively affects any children period. If the would-be parents can't reasonably guarantee a happy household going forward, having children is the epitome of irresponsiblity.

> If the would-be parents can't reasonably guarantee a happy household going forward, having children is the epitome of irresponsiblity.

Who can do this? Who can possibly guarantee anything about the future, especially when it involves other people?

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