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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

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Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#351

Post by fps-hero »

tshaddox wrote: post #305
labster wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota took a big bet on hydrogen power, so we’re not going to see an electric Corolla until they finally give in. As for the price point, electric production is still scaling out. And consumers don’t think they want vehicles with shorter range, even if that’s all they need. First, the car has to sell.

I’m not convinced by the common wisdom that “consumers demand longer battery range.” That’s especially irrelevant to the “second car” market which surely must be pretty big. I think it comes down more to how ridiculously cheap gas is (despite incessant complaints) and how long it would take most people to come out ahead even just buying a hybrid instead of a pure EV. It sure would be nice if gas were more expensive!

It seems that EVs are stuck in the range wars, the headline spec for an EV above all else is its kWh and range. It’s ridiculous, no ICE car gets marketed by range, and if they did you’d find that EVs are about on par range wise, they are just less convenient to refuel.

The value proposition of a hybrid makes EVs difficult to stomach, why get one EV when you can get two hybrids for the same price? Toyota will 100% jump on EVs once they become economical, but until then they are still making the car for the masses.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#352

Post by mrpopo »

Prickle wrote: post #248
waffles4life wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Hackernews just getting overrun by pro-Xi commentators that make up whatever they want now? Chinese air pollution is ridiculous, and it's primarily because of their massive amount of vehicle emissions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6526014/

"Lots of air pollution" and "lots of electric vehicles" can be true in the same sentence. Vehicles are not the only source of severe air pollution.

* EVs are not a solution to air pollution, most air pollution from modern cars is from brakes and tyres.

* OTOH, China is really ahead in battery-powered 2-wheelers, that replace the old scooter fleet, and that ought to do something.

* Still, China's air pollution is for the main part due to massive use of coal power, incinerators, and desertification bringing sand from Gobi desert. The linked study from grand-parent doesn't even mention any of these.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#353

Post by runeks »

elif wrote: post #249
mikeryan wrote: post #137

One thing that EV's have an advantage of is the reduced footprint of their drivetrain. The primary bulk of an EV is the massive battery that usually spans the bottom of the car opening up space in the interior or the ubiquitous EV "frunk" this makes for a more spacious interior and the Y takes advantage of this well. That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a…

What makes you think the model Y isn't solid or reliable? I'm super happy with my 2021. I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. A negative comparison on reliability with ICE just does not compute to me.

> I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops.

How many miles/kilometers have you driven?

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#354

Post by hef19898 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #348
hef19898 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, cars are not technology? What about, I don't know, aircraft, power plants, ships, medical devices, laptops and phones (the hardware portion of those? And which "tech" is top notch with Tesla, self driving? Their marketing is more than just incredibly good so.

Cars haven't changed in any fundamental manner for the better part of a century at the very least, so no cars are not so-called "technology" at this point. Not even the EV fad, because electric vehicles predate cars powered by combustion engines. What has changed is the technology behind controlling those cars. On that front, it surprises me in absolutely no way that Tesla, an information technology company, does bus…

Seriously? Try driving a car from, say, the late 80s and one from 2020.

But ok, only software is tech, got it. So when exactly is mechanical engineering no longer a STEM discipline? Seriously, that take is simple hybris of the software crowd, and totally ignoring all the hardware tech all of us use all the time. But ok, a while ago the only measure of car quality was chassis panel fitting (if there ever was a truely German over engineering nonsense, that is it), now it is the feel of the car entertainment system. To each generation their own marketing abuse of technology I guess.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#355

Post by alkonaut »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #125

Half of it is the buying process.

worlds best selling car. Remember that the Tesla buying process is known as the "car buying process" since forever, outside the US, at least in the kind of countries where people buy expensive cars.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#356

Post by jillesvangurp »

cheeze wrote: post #82

As a cyclist, there isn't any car on the road that scares me more than these. The drivers are worse than aggressive truck drivers. Given that it's the best selling car, maybe it's just that people are generally horrible at driving? At least in my area the drivers of these seem an order of magnitude more clueless than any others.

I cycle a lot in Berlin. My observation is that EVs are far safer to be around because the car will hit the breaks before the driver gets into any trouble. Big ICE cars on the other hand are the worst. SUVs are the worst. I constantly get cut off by obnoxious drivers aggressively driving from traffic light to traffic light, cutting off people, breaking the speed limit, running red lights, double parking, or slamming their door in your face because they can't bothered to look around then. German traffic rule enforcement is very hands off so there is a lot of this going on. I deal with this on a daily basis.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#357

Post by alkonaut »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #350

Chinese cars like Korean cars used to be joke - the new Haval SUV is cheaper and quality wise from the looks on par with my Hyundai SUV.

The biggest quality concern isn't that something will break but the quality of the support I get when it does. If the closest dealership+brand repair shop is two hours drive away and all the major brands have repairs 5 minutes drive away, then it's not competitive. The moat of the established brands is pretty big when it comes to the service network.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#359

Post by ArtemZ »

I bought a used Mercury Grand Marquis 2009 in perfect condition one year ago and I don't see why would I want to part with it in the next 20 years or so. Grain leather interior that is not making any sounds on road bumps, no touchscreen bs, super smooth ride thanks to rear air suspension. Sure it can't accelerate as fast as an EV, but I just want have a relaxed pleasing experience, not accelerations. It's V8 also makes pleasing sounds when going uphill.

And I paid just 6k for it. I'd rather double the normal maintenance for it than buy a Tesla.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#360

Post by xputer »

colordrops wrote: post #210
mikeryan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted but I'm not sure you're entirely wrong. I'm currently buying a Rivian Truck, pricing is straightforward and I could be buying a T-Shirt on a Shopify site. Simple, I know the price and the experience, while not always easy, has been straightforward. My wife has suddenly needed a new car and leans towards a Mercedes or Audi EV and we're suddenly slammed back into going onto a lot and dealing with…

Car dealers really have no leverage. You can walk out at any time up until signing the paperwork, and just go to another dealer.

Yes but their job is literally to manipulate you into buying a car then and there. They play all sorts of dirty tricks to get there.
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