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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#351

Post by knaik94 »

Gollapalli wrote: post #341
knaik94 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the issue is that the government itself takes part in that marketplace as a seller and buyer. There's no resonable way to make laws for corporations while giving a pass to government agencies, it might be proposed but it would never pass. One of the biggest clients of Cambridge Analytica was the Trump campaign. I became disillusioned about hoping laws pass that protect user data after watching the TikTok hear…

If they are actually just using eye dilation for funny faces, I would be shocked. It's one of those things that's pretty telling physically. Whichever congressman asked that question was NOT dumb.

It would require the camera to be on without notifying you, which isn't possible on modern OSes. Also, changes in pupil size are caused by many different things. That question is similar to asking whether heart rate can be used as a signal. They're not tracking eye dialation for funny face filters. That level of tracking requires cameras better than phone selfie ones.

"The responses can have a variety of causes, from an involuntary reflex reaction to exposure or inexposure to light—in low light conditions a dilated pupil lets more light into the eye—or it may indicate interest in the subject of attention or arousal, sexual stimulation,[3] uncertainty,[4] decision conflict,[5] errors,[6] physical activity[7] or increasing cognitive load[8] or demand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pupillary_response

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#352

Post by friend_and_foe »

You know, all this nonsense could be avoided if we went back to the "if you want to ban our service build yourself a great firewall or get fucked, we don't have to enforce your laws for you" status quo. Unfortunately precedent has been set for foreign persons and corporations to be liable for violating laws of countries they're not centered in just because theyre available to communicate with freely across borders. The big ones like google went along with it for money, now I live in a world where I could potentially be extradited to a foreign country I've never set foot in for saying things on the internet to one of their citizens. So the way I see it I'm happy to watch this whole system of control go ablaze from stupid laws like this one. If authoritarians want to block certain content from their citizens they can do the censoring themselves, but if they want people to have to censor themselves or face penalties they're going to have to deal with stupid shit like this. You can't have it both ways.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#353

Post by diebeforei485 »

screye wrote: post #285
barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

> side-loading of apps on Android 90%+ users are never going to use apks. If this ban kills the network effect (the R0 of the viral infection), then the last 10% aren't going to last long either.

This would be true if it was a country that banned TikTok. But the US is very interconnected, people in Montana have friends etc in other states who post regularly on TikTok, so they would be motivated to download APK's (or use a web version). They'll need a VPN too of course, but that's not particularly difficult. They've already heard NordVPN's ads on YouTube.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#354

Post by friend_and_foe »

tdaltonc wrote: post #336
DanAtC wrote: post #269

Is there a precedent of app stores needing to enforce app restrictions on a state-by-state basis? What if Apple protests and just disables their store in MT? It would only impact at _most_ 500k people (population 1mm at 50% market share, not accounting for demographics) A huge number of angry Montanians who might vote their representatives out, but a rounding error for Apple.

Speaking of precedent, this seems like a pretty straightforward violation of the interstate commerce clause.

That's an interesting consideration. So if this were a company headquartered in Montana they could ban it, but if it's headquartered outside of Montana they can't ban it internally? Its a strange conundrum.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#355

Post by friend_and_foe »

Andaith wrote: post #19

"and demands mobile app stores make the app unavailable for Montana residents." Oh so now they've made an enemy of Google & Apples legal teams? Because those two aren't going to want to set a precedent for all sorts of bans across random jurisdictions.

They already did when they geoblocked content in European and Asian countries to appease their authoritarian leaders in order to profit from their large markets.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#356

Post by friend_and_foe »

nickthegreek wrote: post #306
citizenkeen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do? Plenty of apps are banned in various countries, if I recall correctly.

These are states… should there be city level bans too? Where does it end. Now they need 50 different app stores just for the US customers? Does DC get its own? How should we handle US territories… I think Apple and a Google have plenty reason to fight this.

States are sovereign except for specific roles and powers explicitly reserved for the federal government or otherwise restricted from the states. These aren't provinces, theyre more like European countries in the EU.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#357

Post by flagrant_taco »

mmh0000 wrote: post #205
mikece wrote: post #105

Tomorrow's story: "Residents of Montana discover VPNs and how to use them!" Between Utah and Montana the awareness and use of VPNs is rising among the non-security-conscious, and this is a good thing.

So, I avoided VPNs for years because they had no practical benefit. I live in Utah, and I would consider myself very technically adept. Previously, I didn't like "VPNs" because now I'm just routing all my traffic through another untrusted 3rd party. It's like choosing between two evils, would I prefer my ISP knows where I go, or some rando that I also have to pay? Worse, the "rando" (usually) requires a VPN app which…

> and Utah passed hyper-totalitarian laws

I haven't actually seen anything about a Utah law yet, only the Montana ban of TikTok. What exactly does "hyper-totalitarian" mean compared to totalitarian, and what was the Utah law passed recently?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#358

Post by Buttons840 »

screye wrote: post #285
barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

> side-loading of apps on Android 90%+ users are never going to use apks. If this ban kills the network effect (the R0 of the viral infection), then the last 10% aren't going to last long either.

There will be quite a stir in the school after TikTok disappears, and if a few kids still have access, they will get attention and other kids will want to know how. Perhaps a silver lining is that we're helping the upcoming generation understand the importance of controlling their own devices.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#359

Post by krapp »

paulddraper wrote: post #290
krapp wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is nothing there that explicitly grants private enterprises the right to store, sell, and manipulate your free speech. ... because the Constitution limits the government. It doesn't grant rights to private enterprise or the people (of which private enterprise is a superset.) Note the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which explicitly state that the rights listed in the Constitution are not exhaustive, and that all s…

Note: Ninth Amendment isn't legally meaningful, just morally meaningful. The authors believed in natural God-given rights. They didn't want a certain rights being legally enforceable to give moral carte blanche to everything else. The legal applicability of the Ninth Amendment is similar to that the Preamble.

I have a hard time believing some constitutional amendments are foundational principles of legal doctrine and others are basically just flavor text.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#360

Post by kyriakos »

Buttons840 wrote: post #358
screye wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> side-loading of apps on Android 90%+ users are never going to use apks. If this ban kills the network effect (the R0 of the viral infection), then the last 10% aren't going to last long either.

There will be quite a stir in the school after TikTok disappears, and if a few kids still have access, they will get attention and other kids will want to know how. Perhaps a silver lining is that we're helping the upcoming generation understand the importance of controlling their own devices.

Imagine this boosts android marketshare in Montana as a side effect.
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