Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit • Hacker News Board

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#351

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 8:11 AM UTC

projectazorian wrote: post #300

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm impressed (and a bit envious) you were able to say that first part. I wish I'd worked at place where I could honestly say the same. Every place I've left, the best I could muster with a straight face was a bland tautological platitude — something like, "Oh, you know, just going to do something different." I don't exactly have tons of experience quitting jobs or ending relationships, but I've never understood the…

> And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact? Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person. Of course not all employers ar…

> Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person.

My anecdata seems to confirm this. I told my employer I love my job but I'm leaving solely because of their RTO policies. They changed them after I left.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#352

Post by ghaff » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 8:37 AM UTC

dghlsakjg wrote: post #344

scarface74 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment is like $350 - $550/week.

Unemployment in the US is set at the state level. Many states pay significantly higher than $550. WA pays a max of $999 weekly.

Yeah. Last time I looked, MA was like $1k. Just across the border, NH was more like $400. Not a fortune and doesn’t start until vacation payout is done I believe but not nothing for most. You do need to at least go through some motions of job hunting.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#353

Post by compsciphd » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 8:57 AM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #105

Echoing all the previous statements, I gave two weeks' notice when I left my first real job (Microsoft), and they immediately walked me out the door. In this case they weren't jerks about it-- my manager even apologized to me and said if it was up to him they'd've let me stay, but said it was absolutely iron-clad policy that he couldn't change-- but yeah, giving even more notice than that seems to be advice that coul…

I've been at companies like that, when I told my manager I was leaving, he was basically "lets wait to tell HR until X date so they don't walk you out and you can transition your stuff". Didn't bother me, as the benefits mentioned in article applied.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#354

Post by elzbardico » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:14 AM UTC

itslennysfault wrote: post #166

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US person here who has participated in a lot of online advice/mentoring forums. I've never once seen a tech company immediately "fire" someone who says they're resigning like the parent comment claims. The only exceptions I can think of were when people gave multiple months of notice that they were going to quit and already had declining performance due to e.g. unhappiness about the job. If you're not performing well…

I think this MIGHT work at a lot of smaller companies, but BIG tech companies tend to have a policy that you are a security risk as soon as you admit you're quitting. I suppose that falls under the umbrella of "working for a competitor" If you work for Microsoft (for example) pretty much EVERY tech company is a competitor of theirs because they have soooo many products and services. I saw this happen multiple times.…

A policy that really makes no sense. If you have ill intentions, nothing precludes you from acting in bad faith in advance to give notice.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#355

Post by lazyweb » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:15 AM UTC

Can't help but be mildly amused by the article and many of the comments. Here in Germany the standard "Kündigungsfrist" is often three months to the end of the current month at many tech (and other) places.

For example, if I wanted to quit my current job (which I'm currently contemplating), I'd have to make sure to do it in april, otherwise I'll be stuck for another month.

It does go both ways, a company can't just fire you without reasonable cause, such as gross misconduct. But in most cases people stop trying after handing in their resignation - which I can't blame them for - and as a manager I'd like to release them earlier.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#356

Post by OJFord » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:16 AM UTC

zdragnar wrote: post #346

Freedom2 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. In my experience, I've somehow managed to score referrals despite daring to give less than 2 weeks notice and my previous bosses still recognize my investment in the company's success. It's rather amusing that the midwest isn't more forgiving when it comes to shorter notices, or that an employee is instantly branded as a "bridge-burner".

> midwest isn't more forgiving As with all social etiquette, it's a guideline, not a law. The outcome depends entirely on your relationship with your boss and what kind of position the team is left in when you leave.

Don't you have it defined in your contract typically? It is in the UK. Two weeks is about the minimum it'd be for a professional job, often more with seniority or time at a company (i.e. contact will say +1 week for every two years or whatever).

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#357

Post by elzbardico » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:18 AM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #314

chickenpotpie wrote: post #125

No, no, no, no a billion times no to this absolutely not no The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye." Sometimes it's a blanket company policy to do this, sometimes it's because they know you're going to a competitor and they don't want you to start training for your new job, sometimes they were on the fence about you st…

This. 100%. You never let someone who gives notice keep their badge. You just say, "Congrats, there's the door. Cheers!" You have no control over someone who has given notice. If they do good work... that's great. But if they do shit work, what are you going to do, fire them? The liabilities are outrageous, and the payoff is only 2-weeks dev time (if you're lucky)... at the regular rate... Nah, not worth it. And you…

Yeah, because people magically become mischievous spies for the competitor the moment they give notice. All this time they were job-hunting, doing interviews, and negotiating offers, it was just for fun, and they were still the "good guys". But the moment they communicate a decision to leave that they actually made a long time ago, when they started looking for another job, they automatically become Osama Bin Laden. Sure, it makes a lot of sense...

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#358

Post by ResearchCode » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

0xBDB wrote: post #297

fredrikholm wrote: post #189

Reading the comments in this thread really feeds into my bias that worker rights in the US are ... n't? I vividly remember a job posting from last year that listed '15 allowed sick days' as a benefit. What does that even mean? In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample…

"What does that even mean?" It means you get 15 paid days a year to be sick. Beyond that, you have a certain number by law (I think 60) which you can take unpaid without risk of being fired. After that, sickness is theoretically grounds for termination, but very few large employers would do that because of the bad publicity. Also most IT workers here have long-term disability insurance for 'free' from their employers…

It is purely for the benefit of the employer. You can always negotiate a shorter or asymmetric notice period. There does not appear to be any relation between "flexibility" (at-will employment so companies can abuse you) and unemployment rates. Japan has 3% unemployment and stronger labor protections than Europe.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#359

Post by Lacerda69 » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

0xBDB wrote: post #297

fredrikholm wrote: post #189

Reading the comments in this thread really feeds into my bias that worker rights in the US are ... n't? I vividly remember a job posting from last year that listed '15 allowed sick days' as a benefit. What does that even mean? In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample…

"What does that even mean?" It means you get 15 paid days a year to be sick. Beyond that, you have a certain number by law (I think 60) which you can take unpaid without risk of being fired. After that, sickness is theoretically grounds for termination, but very few large employers would do that because of the bad publicity. Also most IT workers here have long-term disability insurance for 'free' from their employers…

I guess there are tradeoffs both ways.

I will gladly accept that downside(?) of having to give 3 months advanced notice for the upside of not being fired arbitrarily on the spot whenever my employer feels like it.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#360

Post by quelltext » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 9:42 AM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #303

monster_group wrote: post #9

This is terrible advice. Great that it has worked for the author but it does not mean it's a good idea for everyone. 2 weeks is the standard and as long as you give that you maintain good relations. Most people are not as valuable or important as they like to think they are. I have seen very important people leave / fired and things still go on. (Twitter is still working - isn't it?) Once you tell that you are leavin…

I have resigned for two different jobs where I was the highest tech leader, reporting to the CEO (basically CTO role without the title). Both times I gave 1 month of notice. Both times all the "transition" work was done during the first 2 weeks, and afterwards, I basically sat at meeting listening without say (I pushed for my "replacement" to be the one making the decisions as if I wasn't there) and even the CEO aske…

I don't know. Not to offend you but in general I consider leadership roles to be more easily replaceable than IC ones. Fundamentally, it's the ICs that usually have all the intricate knowledge of the details. That is something I'd argue cannot be handed over in just two weeks, in particular to just anyone.

On the other hand, the leadership folks I interact with always make only super high level decisions. Rarely does it get intricate. It's more important to know how to quickly assess the big picture and how to communicate. All lot of what a leader does and makes them uniquely leaders is not something that's based on acquiring company specific and product and infra specific knowledge accumulated across several years.

I rarely care if my manager leaves beyond the fact that I have to build trust with someone new. But ultimately they aren't super in the weeds on anything mission critical.

An engineer that can jump into an incident and immediately identify the problem on a code path because they have worked on it or around it intimately at some point does make a difference, but also just having a detailed mental model of how the system pieces interact is super crucial. Bus factor is a thing, even though it rarely is catastrophic. Lead time can help here.

Of course leaders leaving also is a challenge, but it's because of their unique charm, ability to grasp issues quickly and make sane decisions. But none of this can be transferred to a new guy, in 2 or 4 weeks or 8.