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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#351

Post by haswell »

xwdv wrote: post #299
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

No. The point isn’t that homeless kill people, it’s that homeless and drug addicts create environments where people are more likely to be killed, by anyone.

Setting aside for a moment that this incident did not involve homeless people, we need to bring systems thinking to this problem, and ask what created the environment of homelessness to begin with.

Focusing only on the symptom here is similar to focusing on error logs and system crashes as if they are self contained phenomena and lamenting the impact they have on operations teams.

These issues are signs of upstream problems, and either there are poor coding practices somewhere in the org, or infrastructure that hasn’t been properly scaled/optimized (among a myriad of other possible causes).

This community in particular is well positioned to understand this broader mindset.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#352

Post by jjulius »

bobobob420 wrote: post #200
jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

“ Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go, and you still complain when they dare to pop up where you are.” Nope. One of the wealthiest cities in the world fails to look after its inhabitants. A failure of government

>Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go...

>One of the wealthiest cities in the world fails to look after its inhabitants...

These are the same thing.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#353

Post by DharmaPolice »

cemerick wrote: post #206
Vervious wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ton of people care about property crime and I don't think you should look down on them. SF has 3-5x the property crime of most major cities in the United States. I imagine most violent crime is targeted (i.e. the victim is not a random person walking down the street), but property crime is scary because it can happen to the best of us, our friends and our family, in even the "safest" neighborhoods. We all know frie…

That's great; in general, people should be, and I'm not looking down on them for doing so. However, property crime is absolutely irrelevant when presented with the news of someone's murder, yet so many people here are quick to conflate them as somehow equivalent vis a vis personal safety, etc. (Sidenote: I personally don't understand anyone thinking that property crime is "scary". Your car is not your kid. Your walle…

People (on the whole) aren't afraid of losing stuff. They're afraid of someone coming into their home or grabbing them on the street and things going south. If you somehow had a device which 100% guaranteed your personal safety (but somehow still allowed theft) then (for most people) most of these crimes would merely be an inconvenience/irritation on the same level as low level credit card fraud (where you lose no money but have to get a new card).

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#354

Post by wnevets »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

I remember rolling my eyes alot while reading the comments in that thread. I would expect many of those people will double down rather than offer any mea culpa.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#355

Post by shadowgovt »

screye wrote: post #300
cemerick wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I'm "championing" (just pointing out, really) is that certain populations seem to enjoy using anecdotal tragedy to promote their own quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities, despite all available data contradicting that worldview. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the update on your locale, and your own stories of property crime and/or non-criminal (yet perhaps unnerving?) personal intera…

On the other hand, I feel like it takes an incredibly public tragedy for a platform for HN to tolerate any discussions around SF crime. People want to talk about crime, drugs & homelessness all the time. It is only in high profile cases where the issues seem topical, that HN can't discourage discussion around them. > quasi-apocalyptic worldview re: some American cities I don't see why speaking out about lack of polic…

> People want to talk about crime, drugs & homelessness all the time. It is only in high profile cases where the issues seem topical, that HN can't discourage discussion around them.

Indeed, because that's not what this forum is for. There's ten thousand fora online for general, local, or city-policy political discussion; those topics are only germane in this forum when they relate to tech or the processes of tech.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#356

Post by dmode »

xwdv wrote: post #286

[flagged]

There have been only 12 murders this year in SF and none of them have been random. And you are literally commenting on an article where the murderer was apprehended within days. And SFPD has over 60% clearance rate on homicides. So your facts and conclusion are so hilariously wrong I would ashamed to hang out on these boards after this.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#357

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

stickfigure wrote: post #135
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

Which all has jack and shit to do with this case.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#358

Post by suzzer99 »

robocat wrote: post #36
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

Off-topic: That particular HN discussion contains many users creating a political narrative, and even at the time it was obvious there were many bad comments. I wish we had a way to downrank users that derail conversions with crap. Are there forums with better user moderation systems that boost ranking of quality comments and decrease ranking of comment noise? Something where I can systematically increase the ranking…

HackerNews is still better than just about every site out there with this high of a profile. Once the bad faith trolls take up residence, discourse goes into the toilet. At least 99% of HN posters are earnestly trying to make a point they believe in. HN just isn't sexy enough to pull in the trolls.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#359

Post by jmull »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

> I wonder if all the many commenters who had preemptively blamed homeless or poor people for this would change their mind in the light of this,

You should understand that San Fransisco has serious problems with homelessness and crime. While some people may have been mistaken about the root cause in this particular case, that doesn't invalidate their very real concerns.

> all tech executives to be forcibly housed in a palace against their will

I think sidetracking this with charged political comments and silly hypotheticals trivializes a serious issue.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#360

Post by macNchz »

kenjackson wrote: post #101
danso wrote: post #64

People were so quick to assume the nature of the crime even when no info about a possible suspect had been publicly released. Check the quote tweets to Bob's 2019 tweet about "recognize that your black friends face challenges you don’t" https://www.twitter.com/crazybob/status/1181668744247930880/...

The comments on that tweet are sickening. And people will say with a straight face that there are no more race problems in this country except wokeism.

Once again thankful to Elon Musk for giving me the push I needed to stop logging on to Twitter.
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