Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#351

Post by foverzar » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

actionfromafar wrote: post #234

foverzar wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why put up with Russia expansion Why put up with NATO expansion? Russia's expansion is also totally defensive! wink-wink > It's funny how Russia always pretend to be a victim It's ironic how Russia is always assumed to be a passive unresponsive corpse with no concerns or perspective and memory of its own. I wonder if it's even hypothetically possible for people to try to fairly grasp that perspective, otherwise Eur…

I never assumed Russia was a passive unresponsive corpse with no concerns or perspective and memory of its own . In fact, I am very concerned about its death-worshipping perspective and distorted memory. You still have to stand up to a bully, or you encourage them. A strategic mistake was not putting severe sanctions on Russia in 2014 when they annexed Crimea.

> death-worshipping perspective and distorted memory

Elaborate? The point of distorted memories and elective outlooks on the past event had been on my mind for some time now.

> bully

Anthropomorphizing countries distorts reality, but do you honestly don't see how every narrative of Russian imperialism and so on could be just as well applied to western post-Cold War totally never-ever threatened very polite expansionism?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#352

Post by anonymousab » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #49

anonymousab wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning it into a barren wasteland makes it easier to take or hold with disposable conscripts.

Is Russia low on land? Are they running out, that depopulating several nations and holding their territory with conscripts makes strategic sense?

In the hypothetical of them using nukes, we'd probably be past the point of there being any reason other than to wipe out the other side and show force to the rest of the world. That they control/own it by might sheerly for the sake of doing so and not by any other rationale.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#353

Post by polski-g » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #80

polski-g wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

And you feel the most probable outcome of using that is “Russia takes over Ukraine”? You think that’s what would happen?

If Russia starts to """lose""" the war, the above is what will happen.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#354

Post by andreygrehov » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #343

andreygrehov wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as in Ukraine. I'm Ukrainian and I lived there for 27 years. There are very little Ukrainians who don't have Russian relatives, because they all had sex between each other when USSR was still a thing. Many Ukrainians have one of their parents born in Russia. The culture in both countries is, more or less, the same.

By pretty much all statics and reports I have seen, Ukrainian neo-nazi problem if massively smaller then Russian one. Every single country has some neonazi ... and Russia has a lot of them and in fairly powerful positions. Ukraine is not celebrating Stalin the way Russia is celebrating Stalin. Ukraine was not forcibly closing organizations studying communists crimes or Stalin crimes, Russia did. Ukraine did not moved…

I will just say that when I lived in Ukraine, one of the "entertainments" for teens was to go find a group of gay people and get into a fight with them. Why? Just for fun. Russia has conservative values and their government works towards the propaganda of LGBT. They do not criminalize anyone for being a gay person. In fact, the same bill was proposed in Ukraine in 2011-12. While the bill did not pass, there are obvious cultural strings.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#355

Post by gps0 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

khochesh_kushat wrote: post #202

rainworld wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “three day war” and the other stuff have always been American talking points that have been regurgitated uncritcally a million times. Yeah, people in the West have been sold the idea that Ukraine is winning (talking about the real Ukrainian losses (not the fantasy numbers you sometimes hear) is strictly forbidded tho), I noticed. Let’s wait till it’s over I say...

I guess you don't watch Russian TV? I'm lucky (or maybe unlucky) enough to speak Russian so I have access. They say much more bombastic things than just these points all the time. They have their own reality distortion field over there and it leads them to make terrible decisions. I'm quite certain that Russia is not secretly winning the war, but it's just that nobody can tell because of how great it's going.

Talking heads on political TV shows are not politicians or affiliated with the government. Them having an intense belief in something does not mean that government officials do.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#356

Post by duxup » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:51 PM UTC

kgwxd wrote: post #56

kreeben wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> just Hah, yeah, that's not a big deal at all, neutralizing Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors, through threats of aggression. Like, who's scared of Russia these days? They're just empty threats. I'd like totally bet my life on it, just empty threats. EDIT: /s

> Who's scared of Russia and their threats, these days? Ukraine?

I’d say less scared than 14 months ago.

Putin and Co. really hasn’t done much for Russia or it’s people lately.

They looked stronger when they were a less aggressive bully and were poisoning people.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#357

Post by duxup » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #177

This is as much a defense policy decision as it is an economic one. Hard for us to get foreign investment living next to a dictatorial warstate unless there's some risk mitigation in place. Not that I don't trust the FDF, pound-for-pound one of the better military organizations out there. (and a happy member of it myself.)

It’s interesting how those same reasons, depending on the time line, would encourage joining, or not joining…. depending on when you consider them.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#358

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

elforce002 wrote: post #262

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not that, its more the general feeling of an american decline and an obsession on knowing how it will end. Doomer feelings are growing more prevalent as out population becomes more divided and our monetary situation grows worse. Many americans feel that our "American Empire" that dominated world politics is losing ground fast and there is a need to cope by being "smart" and swearing you know how it will happen. I…

Interesting. Will the term "self fulfilling prophecy" apply here? I mean, that's how the stock market work, right? Something or someone introduce fear (impending war, possible crash of the dollar, etc.), get people talking about it causing more uncertainty, and the cycle continues, thus fulfilling the original premise. I'm not a geopolitical expert by any means, but if there was a time to make a move against the US,…

Fun exercise, do the same thing - but for positives:

- We'll be basically energy independent in 10 years

- Manufacturing is being decentralized and re-shored

- Our domination in tech is not slowing

- Despite the news, violent crimes are near all-time lows

- Education is at an all time high

- Low income wages are at recent-history high

- Working hours are declining, PTO is going up

- Gay rights are at an all time high

- Turns out, Russia isn't much of a threat

- etc.

You see what you want to see. It's a good idea to at least try to see things from the positive and negative sides.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#359

Post by Slartie » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #20

khuey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smart view of that is that regardless of whatever ridiculous arguments for Russian imperialism people want to engage in Russia is not physically capable of conquering the Baltic states.

*Without using their nukes

Nuking the country right next to your country sure seems like a great idea. Cause everyone knows that radiation stops at the border!

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#360

Post by mcphage » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

polski-g wrote: post #353

mcphage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you feel the most probable outcome of using that is “Russia takes over Ukraine”? You think that’s what would happen?

If Russia starts to """lose""" the war, the above is what will happen.

Maybe, but this was in response to a commenter claiming that Russia could take over Ukraine in a week if they really wanted to. Which is something very different than what you’re claiming.