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The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

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Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#351

Post by epups »

sgc wrote: post #345
epups wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter that most people die of cancer or heart diseases, as these are old people and these are also prevalent in other countries. When someone dies at 25 from a drug overdose, however, age expectancy is greatly reduced as more expected years are shaved off. The US has WAY more of those than other developed nations.

There is literally a graph I linked, and several other in his twitter thread, that show you are not correct. The difference is caused by deaths in all age groups, throughout every age bracket until about 79. Obviously infant mortality rates in the US, which are higher than elsewhere mainly due to poor prenatal care, have the biggest impact on a per-person basis. But we can see that it does not add up to explaining aw…

I'm sorry but you are the one who doesn't get it. Your data does not show the most important point which is the difference in deaths in people between 5 and 40 years old. In this age range, we are already past the child mortality issue you mention and we are before the other causes of death that are prevalent later. Also, we for this analysis you have to focus on the major differences across countries, not similarities. It doesn't matter that something is causing most deaths, as long as there is another factor, such as drug overdoses, which explains the differences.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#352

Post by sgerenser »

jjav wrote: post #263
magicalist wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For plans purchased through employers the sky is the limit Almost everyone with insurance has a maximum out of pocket limit now. It's possible to have a grandfathered employer health plan, but they'd have to have been running it since 2010 without substantial changes since then, including in benefits or cost increases. There are very few employer health insurance plans that would have met that criteria, and even fe…

> Almost everyone with insurance has a maximum out of pocket limit now. "maximum out of pocket" does not mean what any normal person would interpret it to mean. More than one year I have had to pay way more than the "maximum out of pocket". The insurance company gets to decide unilaterally how much of what you pay out of pocket is credited toward their tally of what you supposedly paid out of pocket. In several years…

Why? Can you give me an example here, particularly as it relates to a medically necessary surgery or procedure? Or does it come down to difference in interpretation of what is medically necessary?

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#353

Post by grecy »

bobthepanda wrote: post #268
grecy wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was floored when I met some students from NYU who explained they've installed nets in the library because there have been so many suicides from people jumping. Yikes. Not exactly how I remember it.. but yeah. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nyu-bobst-library-suicides-al...

NYU is also more vertical than most universities in the US. How many university buildings in the US are 12 floors or higher?

I don't care if the building 100 floors - the problem is not the height of the building. The problem is that young people in the US who are clearly privileged enough to attend a very prestigious university are driven to suicide.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#354

Post by hahaxdxd123 »

ChatGTP wrote: post #348
hparadiz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I'm saying is pooling the entire United States into a single data point is fairly useless. We need to know which demographics are the ones bringing down the average the most in order to make moves that will improve this metric the most.

But you're governed by one federal government, so this point isn't so relevant. If America had a government and voting populace that actually cared about each other and weren't afraid to have universal free healthcare, we wouldn't see the problems that exist within the data? America is a pretty fake place.

Shall we disallow comparisons between the USA and individual European countries as well since they're governed by the EU?

West Virginia's problems are West Virginia's problems and have no effect on anyone living a perfectly wonderful life in California.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#355

Post by sgc »

epups wrote: post #351
sgc wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is literally a graph I linked, and several other in his twitter thread, that show you are not correct. The difference is caused by deaths in all age groups, throughout every age bracket until about 79. Obviously infant mortality rates in the US, which are higher than elsewhere mainly due to poor prenatal care, have the biggest impact on a per-person basis. But we can see that it does not add up to explaining aw…

I'm sorry but you are the one who doesn't get it. Your data does not show the most important point which is the difference in deaths in people between 5 and 40 years old. In this age range, we are already past the child mortality issue you mention and we are before the other causes of death that are prevalent later. Also, we for this analysis you have to focus on the major differences across countries, not similariti…

You claim this is the most important point, I am saying it is important, but not the most important point. The charts show the difference already, show that this difference is largely related to medical / health reasons (as I said above, cardiovascular alone accounts for more of the difference than all those reasons combined), and don't support your conclusion.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#356

Post by noelherrick »

cal85 wrote: post #280
noelherrick wrote: post #262

The solution to this is known by everyone, including those who will fain ignorance. Implement universal healthcare (including mental health), regulate guns (insurance, registration, training, buybacks, red flag laws) including banning weapons of war, build public transportation and transition away from car-mandatory living in all but the most rural areas, and push for democratically-controlled unions and worker co-op…

I happen to generally agree with you on the policies, but comments like this make it much more difficult. It’s intellectually shameful to assert up front that anyone who disagrees with your prescription for society must be just pretending. And then to go on to rant about “psychopaths” and “doom” and “taking our power back”. You contribute nothing here.

I chose my words carefully (though clearly not my spelling):

- CEOs/wealthy folks are more likely to be psychopaths vs. the average population (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-ma...) - Power disables empathy (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/20190...) - Normal Americans have basically zero power - all decisions are made by the elites/special interest groups (https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...)

Add in a personal attack, and the common right-wing trope of "I wanted to agree with you but you said it wrong so now I must punish you," and, baby, you got a conservative stew going.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#357

Post by rolenthedeep »

AmVess wrote: post #137
standardUser wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought people in the US drove like insane idiots long before the pandemic. Weaving in and out of lanes, excessive speeding, road rage over the slightest inconvenience and, the dumbest one to me because it is virtually effortless, failure to use turn signals. It's very easy to drive safely but a good chunk of divers seem to outright refuse. Having said that, the data backs you up. 7% increase in per capita road fat…

Driving like idiots compounded by lack of traffic enforcement as police budgets and staffing decline. I just moved away from a pretty decently sized city, and the police there didn't do any traffic enforcement at all. Not enough manpower to cover traffic and crime.

No, police are very explicitly choosing to not enforce traffic laws.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#358

Post by epups »

sgc wrote: post #355
epups wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you are the one who doesn't get it. Your data does not show the most important point which is the difference in deaths in people between 5 and 40 years old. In this age range, we are already past the child mortality issue you mention and we are before the other causes of death that are prevalent later. Also, we for this analysis you have to focus on the major differences across countries, not similariti…

You claim this is the most important point, I am saying it is important, but not the most important point. The charts show the difference already, show that this difference is largely related to medical / health reasons (as I said above, cardiovascular alone accounts for more of the difference than all those reasons combined), and don't support your conclusion.

We are talking past each other. You are claiming that cardiovascular diseases and other factors are more important to the US having a lower life expectancy than all these other countries. But not in the age range that is the main thrust of the thread we are in, 5 to 40 years old. The first graph you posted is a bunch of counterfactuals on the aggregate life expectancy, suggesting that the overall impact of these early deaths are almost as significant as cardiovascular diseases, which is astonishing.

I think you are confused about this because you also brought up child mortality. Yes, child mortality is also much higher in the US than other developed countries. But we knew that. The article is focusing on less discussed yet very impactful factors which disproportionally impact young people in the US.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#359

Post by ceejayoz »

hahaxdxd123 wrote: post #354
ChatGTP wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're governed by one federal government, so this point isn't so relevant. If America had a government and voting populace that actually cared about each other and weren't afraid to have universal free healthcare, we wouldn't see the problems that exist within the data? America is a pretty fake place.

Shall we disallow comparisons between the USA and individual European countries as well since they're governed by the EU? West Virginia's problems are West Virginia's problems and have no effect on anyone living a perfectly wonderful life in California.

California’s taxes pay for West Virginia problems.

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe...

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#360

Post by dTal »

rolenthedeep wrote: post #62
legitster wrote: post #4

"1 in 25 Americans being born will not make it to their 40th birthday." Wow. Actually impressed with the analysis backing this up. If you read the entire thread, he actually covers nearly every correlating factor I could think of. And it's pretty clearly drugs, guns, suicide, and cars. (The cardio health one doesn't seem as strong). The one that is crazy to me is the uptick in driving fatalities. Cars are an order of…

Something happened during the initial stages of the pandemic. People lost their absolute minds and aggressive and reckless driving got way, way worst than I've ever seen. Hell, about an hour ago a cop tailgated me while I was going 15 over the limit, wove through traffic to cut me off, run a red light, then damn near ran another driver off the road. No lights, no emergency, just an asshole. This is the behavior you h…

>Something happened during the initial stages of the pandemic. People lost their absolute minds and aggressive and reckless driving got way, way worst than I've ever seen.

That's easy enough. People who were socially minded stayed home; people with an individualistic attitude ignored recommendations. You hear similar stories from people working in customer service - the average quality of the person they had to deal with plummeted.

What's a bit peculiar is that, according to you, road culture has not recovered.

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