This somehow reminds me when China banned Google.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
351–360 of 741 posts
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#352The media coverage of this (and the title of this submission, which I argue should be changed to the actual title of the bill) are really confusing everyone - both in here and elsewhere. There is a Senate bill[1] called "S.85 - No TikTok on United States Devices Act", which is very short and seems to only do one thing, and that's ban TikTok. This bill is in committee. There is another Senate bill[2], called "S.686 -…
1. (D) TIMING.—The term “covered transaction” includes a current, past, or potential future transaction.
2. (I) A group, subgroup, or other association or organization whether or not organized for profit. [like an OSS project on github?]
3. (1) IN GENERAL.—It shall be unlawful for a person to violate, attempt to violate, conspire to violate, or cause a violation of any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued under this Act, including any of the unlawful acts described in paragraph (2).
4. SEC. 5. Considerations. [the star of the show - read it]
Apple, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft are definitely touching more than 1M personal records and/or providing "communication". They are all subject to this bill. All their "transactions" are now subject to approval of Secretary of Commerce.
For example:
"State-of-the-art end-to-end encryption (powered by the open source Signal Protocol) keeps your conversations secure. We can't read your messages or listen to your calls, and no one else can either. Privacy isn’t an optional mode — it’s just the way that Signal works. Every message, every call, every time."
Isn't Signal also subject to this bill? Or better, who isn't subject to this bill?
Will starting/contributing to an OSS project in any of the Sec. 5 areas require consulting an attorney?
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#353Maybe someone will scroll all the way down to this comment. Probably not. For half a decade, I have lived outside of the US, and I've watched as it has fallen to shit in slow motion. I make a decent chunk of income in USD and this terrifies me... but this. This move saddens me. There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how…
“Why are we talking about X when we could be talking about Y” is some classic whataboutism. You really seem to be trying to push a pro China agenda by discounting the importance of this.
You’re stance on this is actually “I don’t believe that the CCP would try to harm the US population”. I can tell that is your stance because if it wasn’t then you are effectively saying “I believe the CCP may potentially feed the US population mental-illness-inducing content via targeted algorithms, but I don’t think it’s worth caring about and we should be mad that lawmakers are even trying to do anything about it.”
I mean, it’s not like we’re talking about something meaningless here. If you believe that there is a chance of the CCP doing something nefarious with their Golden Shares power, then that’s a pretty big deal.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, it has nothing to do with "talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm", because if it did, they would be trying to ban Facebook, Instagram, and other social media services that have the exact same effect as TikTok on children. This is really meant to be a punch in the fight against China. US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China and their qu…
Well yeah, ByteDance directly takes orders from the Chinese government. Big Tech can also take orders from the American government, but America is bound by the rule of law and isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps so it's way better
They both take orders from their respective governments, but the nature of those orders, the nature of the business, the relative power, the domain over which the information is valid, transparency, proportionality etc are all very different.
ByteDance isn't under the direct authority at any given moment of CCP, but, they will, at any time, receive arbitrary orders for any particular reason, and they will follow them. Notably 1/2 of the Western world uses this app.
Google isn't under the thumb of US Gov. but with a court order, the FBI can obtain specific bits of information. Notably, Google does not operate in China.
Now - the more secretive relationship with NSA/CIA/FBI aka national security has with Google is a different question, it's a bit guesswork, but just given the nature of the two regimes, and the fact that again Google has no material presence in China it's plain to see the difference.
The Congressional Hearing was a farce in the wind, but the underlying issues of both security and trade are really serious.
It would have been better to create comprehensive legislation a decade ago about data and corporate ownership so companies could make progress. Even if ByteDance owned 49% of a US company that was 'TikTok' and it was based anywhere but China, that would probably be fine.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking at least with my background: Foreign adversaries have learned exactly how to weaponize our free and open internet against our own people. Regardless of the fact that our kids are most vulnerable, China's seemingly made a point of outsourcing their most polarizing algorithmic decisions to the rest of the world but not to their own population, which is essentially a tacit admission of their awareness of the da…
Hi from the rest of the world! > Foreign adversaries have learned exactly how to weaponize our free and open internet against our own people. Do you think that we should ban all the Chinese apps and also all the American apps?
Possibly. But, many countries are formally US allies, with deep security integration. So an American owned application is not as threatening as a Chinese owned application.
America also generally allows businesses and media from foreign companies to take part, whereas China has no such reciprocity.
Security arrangements are real things that can't be merely handwaved away as something that "should" not exist in one's ideal world.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#356Maybe someone will scroll all the way down to this comment. Probably not. For half a decade, I have lived outside of the US, and I've watched as it has fallen to shit in slow motion. I make a decent chunk of income in USD and this terrifies me... but this. This move saddens me. There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how…
According to Washington Post data, there were 393,289 students enrolled at schools during shootings in the past 10 years[0]. (Note this is total enrollment, not those present or injured) In 2022, there were ~25.1 million teens[1], of whom ~67% used TikTok[2], for a total of ~16.8 million on TikTok (totally ignoring anyone under 12 or over 17). I know the numbers are hacky because the first group includes younger chil…
Debating the minutiae of the number of school shootings is just...sad.
The total number of children who should die in school shootings should always be 0.
It's not even particularly hard. Practically every country in the world manages to achieve that target.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [The] US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China. Yeah, except that any business can just buy that information. I can buy your day-to-day movements for dirt cheap. I own a non-American company (though I'm still an American citizen, but that isn't a factor), and it is insanely cheap to get information about any American you want. Hell, BingBot will tell you all about…
TikTok disappearing from tens of millions of iPhones overnight (I have no idea about Androids) would probably work pretty well. If I had to guess, almost none of those people can jailbreak their iPhone to get it again, either. Your option would be to switch to Android and learn to sideload apps (which I think is pretty damn easy these days). The point is not to enforce against individual users, just to remove it from…
It has a website. I've used the website, never the app.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, it has nothing to do with "talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm", because if it did, they would be trying to ban Facebook, Instagram, and other social media services that have the exact same effect as TikTok on children. This is really meant to be a punch in the fight against China. US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China and their qu…
Well yeah, ByteDance directly takes orders from the Chinese government. Big Tech can also take orders from the American government, but America is bound by the rule of law and isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps so it's way better
I agree with the concentration camps. But imprisoned… yes. I don’t live there, but I still have to file my taxes. I can’t go back longer than 35 days, or I have to pay taxes like I live there for five years, even if I don’t. Every banking institution that is willing to do businesses with me has to report my activity to the IRS. I’m not allowed to invest because I’m an American, I’m also not allowed to invest in America because I’m not a resident.
If I didn’t have family there, I’d probably give up my passport, because outside of America it is more of a hindrance than a boon.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did anyone else notice this bill includes a provision that requires the department of Commerce to inform the president Quiet part when wall street has made such a cockup of gambling Quiet part that it becomes a national security risk and gives him the power to issue an Executive Order requiring the general investing public sell that particular stock so hedge funds can pay off their debt? S.686 https://www.congress.go…
Which section is that in? I didn't read anything that way but maybe I need to re-read
Re-reading, I may be mistaken. S.686 is still in committee and it looks like S.1143 looks to have passed the Senate. I read an article this morning that suggested S.686 is meant to be a rider, can't find it now.
Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
China never claimed that they value freedom, (whatever you define as freedom). They value harmony instead, (whatever you define as harmony). By US banning TikTok, US is acting against claimed values, turning out to be hypocrite. China, by banning US social media, doesn't. Might be seen unfair, but it is a dead end that US painted itself into. For the sake of argument, _if_ we agree that banning is OK, EU should ban s…
Why do people have this delusion that empowering oppressive governments promotes freedom in any way?
It is not about "empowering oppressive government".
It is being true to what I claim that I'm, what my values are. If I start playing opportunist, how I'm better that the other guy?