The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…
Meh, a brand new Toyota Corolla Hybrid is $24k including fees.
In a time where half of the US can't afford a $1000 emergency...
The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…
I think a big part of that is changing consumer preferences for larger cars and, to a lesser extent, hybrids and EVs.
As one data point, the 2004 Corolla LE's MSRP of $13,570 is $22,063 in 2023 dollars. The 2023 Corolla LE's MSRP is $21,550. And that's a larger and more featureful car.
> Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament ... that the Internet is dominated by the small niche of loud people who think other people want to hear their opinion. That's it. Anybody who is not deep inside the Reddit (and HN, for that matter) bubble can quickly appreciate how dissimilar the viewpoints on Reddit are from the real world.
Yes, most people are lurkers. That doesn't mean that lurkers can't show their presence with interactions in the form of up or downvotes or that the different subreddits, hashtags, and so on aren't a mirror of the user base. Now, I understand your cynicism, but you'd be naive to believe that small pockets of change are not happening. But then again, what does a European know about European cities? Anyhow, I found this…
Berlin is super progressive. You absolutely don't need a car in Berlin. Berlin certainly has the highest percentage of people (in Germany) aggressively telling everyone that you shouldn't want a car.
Around 30% of households in Berlin do not own a car.
The "I like bikes and I bike everywhere" group is a small minority. I know, I'm one of them. As soon as it's even slightly rainy mine is the only bike in front of the super market (though I'm sure it would be slightly different in Berlin, or at least in some parts of Berlin). But if you looked at surveys, you'd think that driving your car to the super market would be the exception. People on reddit talking about how much they hate cars aren't representative.
The 15 minute city isn't one you never leave, it is one where basic tasks of life are within 15 minutes. Most people will leave it for work, but they will stop and play within 15 minutes of home. Otherwise you are spot on. If your company moves offices within the same city's MSA they assume you can get there. If they move office to a different city they will pay to move you.
> Most people will leave it for work, but they will stop and play within 15 minutes of home. Even that assumes you don't have relatively specific hobbies. Which I guess is true for many people, but it's highly unlikely that (for example) my preferred martial arts instructor and my preferred dance instructor are going to be within 15 minutes of where I live. And of course, your girlfriend/boyfriend, if you don't live…
What are you getting at? Are you incapable of nuance? It was already stated that a 15 minute city isn't a place you never leave, it's a place where you can meet your daily needs within 15 minutes. If you want to go to a specific martial arts instructor, then yes, you probably have to leave. But if you just want a place to work out, that will be around. If you want to go to a specific grocer, you will probably have to leave, but there will be a place where you can get your milk and veggies within 15 minutes. If you meet someone from outside your neighborhood, you'll have to visit them, but if you spend more time in your neighborhood, you'll likely make stronger bonds there.
I think a lot of younger people who choose to live in a city, especially new grads, are essentially continuing their college experience. A lot of friends probably live in the city too. They can often bum transportation/do joint activities from friends who do own cars and are mostly fine with minimizing out of city activities that require a car. They also restrict themselves to jobs they can easily get to. Which in te…
Wow. That seems such a sad and limiting way to live your life. I love how I can use my cars to go anywhere at any time without depending on anyone else. And my family and I do a lot of optional activities. Different perspective, I guess.
In all fairness, it works both ways. Increasingly with traffic and difficult parking, I think twice before driving into the nearest major city for events or just a casual dinner. So it works both ways. People, very reasonably, are biased towards activities that aren't routinely inconvenient.
> We have 11 million cars on a population of 17 million. Yeah, but we have 23 million bikes. It's true that our public transport has been neglected. The privatisation of the 1990s was a bad idea in my opinion, and public transport should be run for the public good, not for profit. Like roads, it's part of the nation's infrastructure. And better public transport means less people on the road, which means less traffic…
All of that is true but it doesn’t seem to refute the parent’s claim that the American anti-car rhetoric envisions a nation where cycling and taking public transit to work is the norm because the Dutch have figured out how to make cycling and public transit faster than driving.
Not Just Bikes on youtube (strongly recommended) loves to point out that Netherland is not just better for bikes, but also for cars, exactly because so many people travel by bike, leaving the road available for those who really do need a car. And the roads here are far better maintained than in any of our neighbouring countries.
For some trips, cycling or public transport really is faster than driving, but for others obviously not. The most important thing is that all three are viable options. Forcing everybody into only one of those three will hurt everybody.
While I totally agree with this, I think you should still get a drivers license. There's always a very real possibility that you may need to drive a car in some sort of emergency.
> I think you should still get a drivers license Or learn to drive, at least. I don't think lack of a licence would stop you driving in a real emergency.
Probably get a license though. A real emergency is when you're most likely to make mistakes behind the wheel and you're going to be in a lot of trouble if you get in an unlicensed accident.
It's better to go to the track twice a month and have fun in a rented Ferrari or a Lamborghini for 10 very hot laps and then Ubering for the rest of the month moving from point A to point B.
The whole ownership of a car seems like useless as far as practicality and also cost. The A-B cars are owned by the community and the fun cars are owned by the track (or the rent company at the track). And I just use one or the other depending on my mood.
The whole cars as design objects I never bought into that.
Of course I live in a city and I don't need cars to do heavy work.
The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…
Meh, a brand new Toyota Corolla Hybrid is $24k including fees.
That moves the monthly cost from $780 to $720. That's still an expensive proposition.
I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…
Me too. I hate the stress of driving. The busy traffic, all the mistakes you can make and be fined for, the hurry of some people. Expensive everything. I live in a city now with amazing public transport and I don't miss my car at all.
It's also utterly wasted time. You can't do anything with it and you can't even zone out because you're actively driving. While walking or on a bus you can read or devote your whole attention to an audio book. You're not home, but it's still your time.