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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#351

Post by nequo »

criddell wrote: post #340
nequo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS devices are running a derivative of straight up macOS that your MacBook is running too. As computers, they are as real as any. The "only run approved software" part is a restriction imposed by Apple. It is not because of a physical limitation that makes them not real computers.

So they are like set top boxes and game consoles then? Just like the person you replied to said.

Yes. Parent also said that they are not real computers. What I am saying is that they are.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#352

Post by ineptech »

api wrote: post #136
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software. Apple does sell real computers under the Mac line.

A more common and descriptive term for this is "general purpose computer", (as distinct from "special purpose computers", e.g. rokus, ATMs, and iphones).

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#354

Post by criddell »

PedroBatista wrote: post #260
voakbasda wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just Apple. The same dynamic plays out with most other hyped technologies. Apple’s fans may demonstrate this behavior most clearly, but cults of sycophants exist for many different companies: Microsoft, Tesla, Google, … this list never ends.

Agree, Apple is the poster child, Tesla a close second because it targets most of the same people and markets. I still remember when Satya Nadella went "all-in" with Linux and Open Source, the whole "running Linux on Windows", etc. Many people went nuts and in a matter of months Microsoft was the hot new "hip" company. Which anyone looking into Microsoft's business for 5min would laugh at all that non-sense. Just an…

There are some pretty good reasons for wanting big parts of the status quo to remain. I bet if you took a few minutes, you could think of a few of them and that might give you a better understanding of why some of your tech friends are worried about Apple being forced to change.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#356

Post by bkdbkd »

PedroBatista wrote: post #128

The relationship some developers have with Apple should be a case-study with multiple PhD thesis in psychology. Not even in movies I've seen so many cases of children desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent. Apple is a trillion dollar company, it's the "parent" who sells you +$40 dongles for everything. "Hobbies" are only good if they make them money AND doesn't increase their risk or any liability.…

Yes, Great analogy. Remember the 2017 "Apple Commits to Pro Users" exercise? They flew reporters out for a boondoggle, gave them a tour of 'secret labs. With fresh competitive hardware coming 'real soon now'. Just spin.

https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnpaczkowski/apple-sa...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#357

Post by latexr »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #300

The logic here if flawed. Here's the key point: > So basically, I pay a yearly fee to get access to their SDK? Most manufactures provide that to you for free because they really want you to build apps for their platform. This is a classic case of hyper-focusing on the bottom-line cost of something, and ignoring all of the other costs. Windows 11 comes with ads in the search box. Do you see how that's related to XCode…

> Windows 11 comes with ads in the search box.

Apple’s apps have ads for third parties (App Store) and to upsell their own services (Music, iCloud). They’re also allegedly working on adding ads to Maps: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/15/apple-could-bring-ads-t...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#358

Post by yamtaddle »

KerrAvon wrote: post #177
flohofwoe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook. That Macs are still somewhat open is just a happy historical accident. Enjoy it while it lasts :/

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

People've been saying this crap since I started using Macs over a decade ago. They're always sure Apple's on the brink of locking MacOS down into an appliance OS.

They still haven't, haven't even made any big moves that way, but maybe eventually that crowd will be right in the same way that if you predict a recession every year, you'll eventually be right.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#359

Post by spc476 »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #297
a4isms wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…

>But Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. You present an excellent historical case of how Apple got here, but here's where I see a dichotomy: Back in the day, tools like RezEdit, Hypercard, AppleScript came included. There were countless "apps" to reconfigure how the Mac looked and felt to create a personalized experience. Av…

The Apple Macintosh was released in 1984. Jobs was pushed completely out of the company in 1985. When did RezEdit, Hypercard and AppleScript come out? Without looking it up, I would say after Jobs left Apple.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#360

Post by ubermonkey »

stakhanov wrote: post #294
ubermonkey wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely hackable for free if you don't want to use the Apple SDK, though. His complaint is pretty narrow.

But things are certainly moving in this direction, i.e. all forms of unsigned code, sideloading, and so forth being fully banned and devices flat-out refusing to run programs that didn't come from the store and where developers don't have commercial-grade relationships with Apple, with the commensurate amount of money and power being handed over. Microsoft has been moving in that direction too, leaving the Microsoft…

It isn’t, though. People love to SAY this, but I see no evidence that it’s actually true. To make the case that this is an “Apple” thing, you conflate the two very different platforms.

iOS is and always has been a walled garden. That’s fine. You either like that (I do) or you don’t (you probably don’t).

MacOS isn’t. It never has been, and there is no evidence that it’s going to become one.

Yes, the default setting is to require signed code. This is a good default! Most people who buy computers should probably leave that option turned on — but turning it off is very, very simple. It’s just a system preference. This is not evidence of Apple wanting to lock down the Mac. It’s evidence of an increasingly complex world of code, and the rise of malware.

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