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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

351–360 of 565 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#351
post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

40% of high school students don't go to college (of any type). Of those, only a tiny portion are focused on elite universities. Many are just going to Long Beach State, University of Redlands and other 4 year schools that you've never heard of. They have lax admissions. Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees. Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common.

Difference groups in the US face different pressures. Few people have it easy. I think it would be difficult to come to one answers. Some thoughts:

GROUP A - growing population, roughly same number of "top" universities, resulting in ridiculous competition and pressure to succeed. Getting into Harvard 2012 Getting into Harvard 1972.

GROUP B - working class. super hard. income barely grows but rents and costs grow faster. You're squeezed between two walls and it gets tighter each year. You work more only to stay afloat. Eventually you can only work 24hrs a day. Feels like my parents' life in 1980.

GROUP C - already doing well because dad is a CEO. But because of income earning potential inequality, the top 0.01% makes 20x as much as 0.1%, hence brutal pressure to make it into upper-upper-echelon. Cry me a river, i get it.

GROUP D - Immigrant. immigration is harder. lines are longer. there is nationalism and racism. You work hard, but feel trapped by the system, even if you're doing OK income-wise.

GROUP E...F...G...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#352
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite could be true – that we're too quick to diagnose mental illnesses in kids today. In the last few years I've witnessed several kids in my family get referred to doctors for potential mental illnesses and then end up on a cocktail of drugs as a result. It's something I've found really difficult because I was never personally convinced they were mentally ill in the first place and in many cases thes…

ADHD is underdiagnosed, especially in women.

Neurodivergence in general is under-diagnosed, especially women. One of my close friend struggled with OCD her whole life but since it didn’t present like it does in the movies she nor her doctors had any idea. She didn’t get diagnosed until she was an adult which, while good, 20 years of unnecessary struggle isn’t exactly a win.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was not positive. Can you elaborate? I only ever see children like 9-14 happy doing the latest Instagram or TikTok dance craze in the park/at the mall/with groups of their friends.

What you don't see are the kids that weren't invited to the park or mall. The ones those kids are possibly making fun of. Or those same kids you did see, but later at night as they stress about what to wear tomorrow, why Jake didn't like their post earlier today even though he liked Jasmine's post and Mia's post. Many characters in "Nosedive" ( Black Mirror episode) looked really happy as well.

How does one measure whether it's a net positive (for those who are laughing/dancing with their friends at the park) or a net negative (for those like you described) without being biased/projecting?

It feels a little "anarchist" to say "down with all social media! it's most likely a total net negative! nobody should be allowed to enjoy it because it isn't inclusive of those who might be left out!"

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is more diagnosis better diagnosis? I hear this constantly, literally every time people point out we might be calling people mentally ill now that we wouldn't have called mentally ill 20 years ago people go "wow we must be diagnosing people better". To me better diagnosis would be reflected in things like the suicide rate dropping, drug abuse falling, general health metrics improving, and so on, not in simply inc…

It's not. There are Physician Incentive Plans that incentivize doctors to prescribe SSRIs for anyone complaining about generalized anxiety or depression.

I've seen it. I've watched in my lifetime an industry and doctors push SSRI and "mental health medicines" to target children for lifetime use.

This is the real crisis, and I don't think we've peaked yet.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#355
It doesn't help the fact that less teens now believe in God [1]. Whether or not God is real, the belief of one gives more purpose to more people with religious text helping you think beyond what the limbic system wants but on your character and the people around you. And not people as objects but as other sacred beings also with a purpose.

To degenerate a society, strip off traditions that have been formed over centuries collectively, including people with far greater minds than most of us and make everyone more individualistic.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/religious-be...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#356

My daughter hit her teens in2012. It was a horrible couple of years not just for her but from about 8th grade up. Our HS had a suicide wave. Many attepts (my daughter being one) and quite a few of those attempts were successful later. Thankfully my child responded well to therapy. This was in a high competitive HS IN NORTHERN VA. My thoughts on factors: Crazy parents pushing kids to try and get in TJ who had no busin…

I taught at the high school level for about ten years before shifting into tech. I was always astounded by the level of devotion many families had toward traveling sports (notably hockey up here in Minnesota). Outside of truly elite athletic pipelines, I honestly believe competitive youth sports have gotten completely out of hand. Here’s to hoping my son grows up to be a mediocre athlete.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#357
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is because school, especially college, and particularly exams, is about as high-stakes as most people's lives ever get, so they look back at that time as peak-anxiety. Think about it: you're being evaluated and the result of that evaluation shapes the next step in the pipeline, and ultimately the trajectory of the rest of your life! Well, at least that's what the university officials, professors, you…

Something to consider is that many European countries aggressively track students in conjunction with that free/cheap college. As a consequence, failing during early education can put them onto the vocational track much earlier than you’d see for a U.S. student.

Yeah, probably the main reason that US high schools seem to perform worse than other countries is that the US doesn't kick students out in middle school.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell someone with an issue with their physical condition that it is because of diet and lack of exercise and many would change habits, tell them it's due to a incurable but perhaps treatable cancer and some will chose suicide. Tell kids that they are unhappy due to choices made in day to day life and they might change those choices, tell them it's due to a incurable but maybe treatable issue with their brain and some…

I think your take is totally ignorant, and your problem is that you imagine people are being diagnosed with mental illness and/or committing suicide because of “typical human misery”. Physical condition is an excellent analogy. Many obese people are told that any physical complaint is caused by their weight and told to go exercise. This includes people who are later correctly diagnosed with asthma, broken bones, horm…

This shit is a rabbit hole that never ends. If there is anything about you that is seen as abnormal by a doctor (including being a woman yikes — and age also yikes) it gets blamed for everything regardless of whether it makes any sense at all.

I swear so many doctors treat medical diagnosis like it’s a game of spot the difference between you and the reference 25 year old white man.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#359
The author of this piece is responsible for lobbying Congress to pass legislation that I think the HN community would be opposed to: https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Haidt%20Testi...

One of the author's suggestions is a strengthening of COPPA:

> Second, Congress should toughen the 1998 Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act. An early version of the legislation proposed 16 as the age at which children should legally be allowed to give away their data and their privacy. Unfortunately, e-commerce companies lobbied successfully to have the age of “internet adulthood” set instead at 13. Now, more than two decades later, today’s 13-year-olds are not doing well. Federal law is outdated and inadequate. The age should be raised. More power should be given to parents, less to companies.

I don't think it takes a genius to see that this suggestion would have virtually no effect on the problems the author is trying to address. These COPPA age limits are impossible to enforce, raising it would only mean more kids lying about their age when making accounts on websites, or just getting parental consent. And even if it were possible to enforce, how does it address social media causing mental illness?

One of the author's other suggestions is to pass a version of the UK's Age Appropriate Design Code(!!!!)

California passed its own version of this law in September 2022. It has already been commented on and critiqued extensively on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32587592 Dear California: How Can I Comply with Your New Age-Appropriate Design Code?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32646043 Age Verification Providers Say Don’t Worry About California Design Code; You’ll Just Have To Scan Your Face For Every Website You Visit

Putting aside the main subject of the OP, it is important to remain vigilant and watchful for legislation that will hamper privacy on the internet in the name of "saving the children". I myself can agree that "social media" is a contributor to increased social discord and depression, but these problems affect everyone, not just teenagers. And I think the root cause is, of course, the design of these sites; the way they crudely attempt to quantify "likes", the way they use metrics like the "like" and the "view" as the sole guiding principle behind their design philosophy, rather than productive and humanistic conversation. It is the way these platforms lie to the user, presenting content as if it is the user's hidden inner desires discovered by an external algorithm, when in reality it is the user being shaped by the platform, not the other way around. The way these platforms prioritize content meant to inflame, to provoke, to get "engagement".

This is the real problem of social media, the product itself, the structure of it. But those with power in our society are addicted to it, and instead propose all kinds of useless "safeguards" like age gates and ID checks that only serve to increase the power of these platforms as surveillance tools. The mantra of each side of the aisle is, "if only we were the ones in charge of moderation." I think it is clear to see that this is a naive and unconsidered approach.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#360

girls 15-19 that self harmed: 0.45% -> 0.7%. A 47% increase! boys 15-19 that died by suicide: 0.01% -> 0.016%. A 34% increase! Relative increase percentages (i.e. exponentials) are misleading when they are measuring linear phenomena like suicide rate. You could just as easily say there was a 0.1% decrease in the percent of boys who didn't die by suicide. It's misleading because the new 0.006% of male suicides are unr…

Help me out. I don't see the problem. If there are 100 suicides per 100,000 people in a year amongst a cohort and the next year there are 134 per 100,000, that's an increase in total suicides of 34%. I don't really see why that's not useful as an indicator of how much worse the problem is getting. To me, it would be nice if they were clearer about what that percentage represents, is it the average from 2000-2010 vs the average from 2010-2020?

A bigger issue to me is that small window of the data. It's hard to tell how bumpy this curve is over the long term. Like is a suicide rate amongst teens that fluctuates 34%, decade over decade typical?

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