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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

351–360 of 407 posts

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.

I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like: Planning for the future Delayed Gratification Self Reliance Adherence to the nuclear family Objective, Rational thinking Hard work being the key to success

I have come across Smithsonian Institute before [1] (unfortunately). I'm sure white supremacy is also defined by being healthy, having good money management, etc. Everything held up by white Western culture must be purged.

I've worked with a number of young black adults for example that have said (paraphrasing) "this work is too hard, where I am from we do not work this hard". My response is always something like "the greater the work, the greater the reward".

According to DEI, what I should have done is made the work easier/irrelevant for them, and then balanced out the end result (probably by degrading the work of others).

But being a white supremacist, I made them work hard, and they got a great end result. Afterwards they thanked me for pushing them and they were (rightfully) proud of what they had achieved. It had value because it was not easy to obtain.

[1] https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiten...

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like: Planning for the future Delayed Gratification Self Reliance Adherence to the nuclear family Objective, Rational thinking Hard work being the key to success

Yes, that was one of the examples I had in mind. Yet you see folks in her dismiss any arguments against DEI as boogeyman of right-wing pundits.

> Yet you see folks in her dismiss any arguments against DEI as boogeyman of right-wing pundits.

I don't know how "right-wing" became a slur, but it's unhealthy for people to hold their opposition with such low regard.

Progressive politics (typically left-leaning) is the idea of making "progress" (read: change), so most issues raised if not implemented or occurring already, will occur in the near future.

Conservative politics (typically right-leaning) is the idea of conserving the current way of life, but they are rarely successful and only serve to slow down policies. Conservatism for the most part is a mostly liberal position. Most honest people would agree there is a great advantage to making change slowly and carefully - all the longest living institutions (up until recently) survived by doing this.

The problem in the US is that conservatism is also conflated with lots of other random ideas, like religion and right-wing policies (anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, etc). There's no way to vote for the parts you like without voting for the parts you don't like.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure that’s fine a fine sentiment to hold. But it’s also anodyne and unspecific. It’s certainly not the kind of thing that’s going to differentiate you in a competitive job application process. Because the job in fact is to teach a diverse classroom. So if all you have to say are banal platitudes in your DEI statement, you will be passed over. Not because your position is wrong, it’s not. But because others are able…

So for example if you're a math teacher, and the job is to teach a diverse classroom, what the hell does that mean?

https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/03/06/six-ways-math...

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you been a job candidate or on the hiring committee at a top institution? I have been both, and I would say your take is basically accurate, but it’s actually more fundamental than what you describe. Diversity statements are needed because teaching a diverse classroom is part of the job today . Applicants must demonstrate that they’ve grappled with the issues that arise while teaching. Applicants who can’t art…

When I see someone argue from first-hand experience that this is all no big deal, I feel fairly confident predicting that their politics are more or less aligned with present-day progressivism. And within that context, I can believe that it's no big deal to merely repeat the progressive world view that the interviewers want to hear at that moment. What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonabl…

> What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired.

Once again, the purpose of a DEI statement is not to articulate how much you agree (or disagree) with progressive ideology. Doing either will sink your application.

The point of the essay is to describe how you handle on the job challenges related to diversity, because they are not abstract. Discussions of trans kids, sick people, blind people, wheelchair bound people, etc. are abstract to many here on HN, because meeting and serving the needs of such people is not part of the daily job description of the commentariat here. But it is part of the daily job of a professor, so it’s essentially addressed in the job application. Could you imagine giving your political views during a C++ coding interview? DEI statements are no different.

Just because the political parties have made diversity into a political issue, doesn’t mean it’s a political issue in our department during the hiring process. We never talk about candidates with any political colorings, only about their ideas and experience related to the job.

The key mistake many posters here are making (including you) is assuming this process is carried out by political actors looking to implement an agenda. Maybe you can find instances of that (as you can anywhere), but it’s mostly people just looking to hire a colleague, and trying to find the best one. It’s not political. Consider yourself lucky that political parties haven’t turned your hiring process at your job into a political football. I didn’t ask for this grief.

> What is a salient position? If only one world view is credited as being "salient", then it is a de facto political litmus test.

The salient position is that: the classroom is diverse, and that creates challenges in teaching. Any denial of that is to deny the reality of the job. That’s not a political litmus test, that is a job qualification test. Every member of the faculty knows this to be true from experience, from the famously conservative prof in the bio department, to the purple haired feminist in the sociology department. To deny this on your application is to telegraph you are willing to put your own political feelings ahead of the realities of the job.

Moreover, when an applicant parrots anodyne platitudes about how they treat every student equally, they neglect an opportunity to set oneself apart by highlighting experience in this area. For instance pronouns are a hot button issue. Some applicants will make some big deal about pronouns not being necessary, and we will have to reject that application because we all have our pronouns in our signatures. Not for political reasons, but because we have many trans students, and it makes things easier for everyone when pronouns are used upfront; when you have a Frank on your roster who is wearing a dress and lipstick and goes by Francine, having a protocol of pronoun visibility reduces friction in the classroom. It makes Francine feel welcomed and it helps her classmates as well. It’s a net win for everyone, and so political options about tans and pronouns are just not needed. You may feel political about pronouns, but our acceptance and usage of them is a practical matter for us because we have trans customers. Therefore arguments from a political position have no place in a DEI statement. You can argue that they aren’t practically needed, but that will go against our experience.

Feel free to hold whatever political opinion you want. Like I said, the bio prof is famously conservative. But you should keep your politics to yourself, especially during the application process. I believe that’s universally applicable advise.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI statements are absolutely viewpoint statements, and DEI statements are graded according to their adherence to a specific political ideology (and frankly, it’s closer to a religious ideology than a political one). If a public school’s “organization goals” have extended into the realm of advancing DEI political ideology, then the organization is operating outside its remit.

> DEI statements are absolutely viewpoint statements, No, they aren’t. They are “how have/would/will you achieve specific goals” statements. Some actual prompts (with institution names removed as a distraction here, if included) [0]: “Applicants should submit a statement explaining how their teaching at the College will contribute to a culture of inclusion and campus diversity.” “A description of how the applicant wo…

You are downvotes but you are of course correct. The worst kind of DEI statement you could write would be one that just blindly parrots progressive ideology. Sometimes we get those and they are given a very low score. To say the essay is supposed to express a political viewpoint is to admit one has never been involved in this process.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure that’s fine a fine sentiment to hold. But it’s also anodyne and unspecific. It’s certainly not the kind of thing that’s going to differentiate you in a competitive job application process. Because the job in fact is to teach a diverse classroom. So if all you have to say are banal platitudes in your DEI statement, you will be passed over. Not because your position is wrong, it’s not. But because others are able…

So for example if you're a math teacher, and the job is to teach a diverse classroom, what the hell does that mean?

If you are a math teacher, the job is to teach math to a diverse classroom. For example, one thing you could talk about in a DEI statement could be your experience e.g. teaching math to a student who was bound to a wheelchair and couldn’t talk except through a computer, and how that impacted your teaching practice in general.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#357
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again this applies to every state. What my kids are taught in school is not a non issue for me, it's pretty much the issue. I will always vote for things that put my kids first even if that regretfully negativity affects others. I won't ever feel bad about that. Everyone will always have different priorities and core issues and that's fine. That's the beauty of democracy, everyone gets to consider their priorities an…

>Again this applies to every state. Sorry, it does not. Many states focus on improving conditions for their poorest citizens, for historically marginalized citizens, and work to improve access to systems that make people's lives better. >What my kids are taught in school is not a non issue for me, it's pretty much the issue. Sure, and Florida is moving away from teaching useful things. > I will always vote for things…

Assume you are just going to ignore the fact that Florida is only ~51% white and he won Hispanics by 15 points? Or are Hispanics not counted as minorities in this narrative?

"Sure, and Florida is moving away from teaching useful things."

This is news to me as I review my kids homework with them every night and it seems to be full of useful things like math, science, reading comprehension, geography, etc. Its almost as if you are being fed a false narrative from wherever you get your information from and then you believe it...

Florida is just moving away from teaching sexuality to young kids.

As far as blaming everything on right wing media, I have voted Dem my entire life prior to this, every single vote I've ever cast. I'm mid 40s. I voted Dem on the federal level while voting Rep at the state level this last election. I don't think I've ever watched a complete segment of right wing media on TV or online in my life. I arrived at my opinion by observing how California has endorsed schools lying to parents regarding their kids sexuality and am against that.

What if instead of assuming that everyone that votes differently than you do is a poor misguided easily influenced idiot and instead you actually try to understand that they just have different priorities than you do. Everyone is trying to just do right by their family and you will get much further and be happier if you focus on the 90% of things that most of us have in common rather than attacking and insulting over the 10% that we disagree on. This attacking and denigrating of different political parties is weakening the country.

Or you can continue to be smug and condescending. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself and superior to others. Your call. Based on your post history in this thread, I think we both know what you will choose.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see someone argue from first-hand experience that this is all no big deal, I feel fairly confident predicting that their politics are more or less aligned with present-day progressivism. And within that context, I can believe that it's no big deal to merely repeat the progressive world view that the interviewers want to hear at that moment. What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonabl…

> What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired. Once again, the purpose of a DEI statement is not to articulate how much you agree (or disagree) with progressive ideology. Doing either will sink your application. The point…

> when you have a Frank on your roster who is wearing a dress and lipstick and goes by Francine, having a protocol of pronoun visibility reduces friction in the classroom. It makes Francine feel welcomed and it helps her classmates as well

Does it help female students, knowing that they have to accommodate this misogyny?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#359
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would change my view on this is to hear someone who has reasonably strong disagreement with present-day progressive stances on education, and nevertheless felt comfortable stating their true beliefs in a DEI statement and was still hired. Once again, the purpose of a DEI statement is not to articulate how much you agree (or disagree) with progressive ideology. Doing either will sink your application. The point…

> when you have a Frank on your roster who is wearing a dress and lipstick and goes by Francine, having a protocol of pronoun visibility reduces friction in the classroom. It makes Francine feel welcomed and it helps her classmates as well Does it help female students, knowing that they have to accommodate this misogyny?

No student has ever expressed to me or anyone else an issue regarding pronoun usage. The whole push for pronoun usage was a student-lead effort in the first place, including cis girls. So until I hear them complain (and students love to complain), I’m going to assume they are okay with it.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#360
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you have a Frank on your roster who is wearing a dress and lipstick and goes by Francine, having a protocol of pronoun visibility reduces friction in the classroom. It makes Francine feel welcomed and it helps her classmates as well Does it help female students, knowing that they have to accommodate this misogyny?

No student has ever expressed to me or anyone else an issue regarding pronoun usage. The whole push for pronoun usage was a student-lead effort in the first place, including cis girls. So until I hear them complain (and students love to complain), I’m going to assume they are okay with it.

They stay quiet out of politeness and not wanting to be harassed and bullied for dissenting views on this topic.

But I can guarantee that at least some of your female students are scoffing at the misogynistic idea that "woman = lipstick and dress and she/her pronouns".

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