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“My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

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Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#351

Post by arcticbull »

gruez wrote: post #331
arcticbull wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of murdering this dead horse there's a reason nobody positions duffle bags of cash as the future of finance no matter where located. Precisely because they can be stolen without recourse. Had that money been safely in a bank account they'd still have it in both these examples. I mean this guy is already demanding the FBI get involved when the FBI's position is you should just put it in a bank account and…

>At the risk of murdering this dead horse there's a reason nobody positions duffle bags of cash as the future of finance no matter where located I think you're conflating "someone who is defending crypto in this particular instance" with "someone who thinks bitcoin will take over the world". >I mean this guy is already demanding the FBI get involved when the FBI's position is you should just put it in a bank account…

> I think you're conflating "someone who is defending crypto in this particular instance" with "someone who thinks bitcoin will take over the world".

We've talked a few times, I always appreciate your perspective :)

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#352

Post by capitalsigma »

reedjosh wrote: post #341
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying that to use crypto properly, I have to secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership of my wealth? That sounds bad. Is there a way I can get my crypto held my an institution with SIPC insurance, the way I hold stocks at a brokerage, so I can outsource this issue to someone else who is backed by a government guarantee? (I obviously don’t expect them to guarantee the value of the crypto, j…

You can also use multisig holdings to ease this issue. > So you’re saying that to use crypto properly, I have to secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership of my wealth? That sounds bad. Welcome to reality. You'll laugh now, but if you want to hold something of lasting value, that's kinda how it works. Gold is physical and requires security. Dollars lose their value to dilution. Other securities incur…

Gold also loses value due to dilution, when more gold is mined.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#353

Post by reedjosh »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #346
reedjosh wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also use multisig holdings to ease this issue. > So you’re saying that to use crypto properly, I have to secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership of my wealth? That sounds bad. Welcome to reality. You'll laugh now, but if you want to hold something of lasting value, that's kinda how it works. Gold is physical and requires security. Dollars lose their value to dilution. Other securities incur…

This thread is actually about security and custody, not valuation. Those are different issues, but we can talk about valuation. My crypto has lost more value than any of my other investments. Since crypto (unlike stocks and bonds) doesn’t entitle me to any cash flows, and (unlike dollars) doesn’t allow me to repay any debts, why shouldn’t the value keep dropping?

Measured using fake dollars. Aka dollars made in other sham Crypto coins and loans.

And now the same is happening to the regular markets since higher rates are sucking dollars from the market.

My Amazon RSUs are 1/2 of my grant date and falling fast.

Shtcoins gonna sht, but BTC hasn't failed in any way, and multisig makes it easier than any other commodity to secure.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#354

Post by AnimalMuppet »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #244
spicymaki wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! if the experts can’t secure their accounts, what hope does anyone else have? Soon you will see people saying you should have done this or that complicated thing, or how somebody so smart could should have known better. No matter what they say it is never enough. This is why lack of consumer protections suck.

> if the experts can’t secure their accounts, what hope does anyone else have? This is my opinion of the entire software industry. Chrome exploits, iPhone hacks, etc. These are nearly trillion dollar companies. If they can't do it then nobody can. Something is fundamentally broken.

Something is fundamentally broken. "We can write perfect software to prevent all attacks" is fundamentally broken, because we have empirically proven that we can't. (The previous model, "we can trust people", is even more broken. But maybe it's the same breakage? "If this packet that came over the internet passes all of our filters of known bad things, then we should go ahead and process it.")

People have touted capability-based security, but I don't think that's the answer, at least for consumer devices (phones and not-administered-by-IT computers). Users will give an app whatever permissions it asks for in order for it to shut up and start running, and those permissions will be used to gut their security. It may limit the damage somewhat, depending on how disciplined the app and the user are, but it will only reduce the damage.

We need a completely different answer. I don't know what it is.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#355

Post by netheril96 »

If I had 200 BTCs I would use several multi-sig wallets. Stealing any single wallet would grant the hacker no access, and stealing multiple would grant them only access to a slice of the asset. Maybe 200 BTC isn't just worth much to the developer to warrant so many protections.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#356

Post by jboy55 »

gruez wrote: post #304
arcticbull wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was that simple and easy why wasn't he doing it. It's simply a ridiculous failure mode that you can lose your entire life savings with no recourse if you make a silly mistake. What a dreadful idea to foist upon ordinary people as the future of finance. We've never accepted this before and let's never accept this again. Every random walk down the timeline results in 100% of coins lost or stolen. [edit] You can o…

>If it was that simple and easy why wasn't he doing it. It's simply a ridiculous failure mode that you can lose your entire life savings with no recourse if you make a silly mistake. Except in this case, it seems like he went out of his way to make it less secure, by putting his wallet on his server. This isn't a case of someone losing his mattress savings in a random home burglary, this is a case of someone leaving…

He didn't put his wallet on his server.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#357

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

reedjosh wrote: post #353
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is actually about security and custody, not valuation. Those are different issues, but we can talk about valuation. My crypto has lost more value than any of my other investments. Since crypto (unlike stocks and bonds) doesn’t entitle me to any cash flows, and (unlike dollars) doesn’t allow me to repay any debts, why shouldn’t the value keep dropping?

Measured using fake dollars. Aka dollars made in other sham Crypto coins and loans. And now the same is happening to the regular markets since higher rates are sucking dollars from the market. My Amazon RSUs are 1/2 of my grant date and falling fast. Sh tcoins gonna sh t, but BTC hasn't failed in any way, and multisig makes it easier than any other commodity to secure.

Can you go into more detail about how multisig helps?

I assume one of the signatures is my hardware wallet. Who holds the other signature? Do they have SIPC insurance?

What happens if my wallet is lost or destroyed?

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#358

Post by sillysaurusx »

Raed667 wrote: post #96

One of the linked transactions: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/432ded9... The destination address ( https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/1YAR6opJCf... ) seems to have received ~216 BTC yesterday in the span of 4 minutes

The hacker will have a rough time converting these to USD without exposing himself. If they’re in Russia they probably don’t need to care, but there’s a reasonable chance they live in a country that the FBI can reach.

On the other hand, no one can do anything until the coins are moved or more information is uncovered. What a nightmare to lose $3.6m overnight.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#359

Post by woodruffw »

int_19h wrote: post #333
woodruffw wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This results in logical regress: any positive evidence that Nakamoto was a native-English speaking Westerner can be spun into negative evidence of an exceptionally advanced adversary. In other words, it's "that's just what they want you to think!" logic. And that can be true, but it's not exceptionally convincing.

I find it no more convincing that the whole notion of Bitcoin being some kind of covert CIA (Mossad, FSB, ...) money laundering operation in the first place. If we're willing to go there in the first place, then we should admit that none of the obvious cues are likely to be truthful.

Sure, I can agree with that. That's an awfully long con!

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#360

Post by panarky »

s5300 wrote: post #291
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying that to use crypto properly, I have to secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership of my wealth? That sounds bad. Is there a way I can get my crypto held my an institution with SIPC insurance, the way I hold stocks at a brokerage, so I can outsource this issue to someone else who is backed by a government guarantee? (I obviously don’t expect them to guarantee the value of the crypto, j…

No, the only thing you need is an infallible memory.

Maybe Luke used LassPass.
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