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Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

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Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#351

Post by CPLX »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #279
Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

For me, it's the ruthlessness of dumping all the FTT tokens they had to crash FTX to buy it (which went pear shape once they saw FTX's books) makes me think that they're probably not in a strong of a position as they say they are. We see this all the time. Exchanges saying they're strong and assets are safe until suddenly a few hours later they're not.

Is there some other action you can recommend for someone holding FTT tokens other than selling them immediately for the best price you can get?

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#352

Post by digitaltrees »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #294
anovikov wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the value of coins if with Binance down, most certainly Bitcoin will be down too as it was propped up with fake printed USDT, which will collapse as well, and with them evaporating, every other coin will follow? If Binance falls, all crypto will vanish. And good riddance.

BTC won’t vanish but most all other ones will revert to their natural state outside of the last few years bubble (zero-ish). I’m sure BTC will still be worth some thousands. And I’m a BTC long term skeptic

At least Tulip bulbs can be planted. Crypto just burns electricity. The value of crypto is actually negative at this point.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#353

Post by jefftk »

HideousKojima wrote: post #346
jefftk wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They claimed to have passed: 2021-07-21 "Yesterday, FTX became the first (?) crypto derivatives exchange to complete a GAAP audit!" -- https://mobile.twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/142135472191111577... 2021-08 -26: "Both @FTX_Official and @ftx_us have passed US GAAP audits and plan to continue getting audits going forward." -- https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1431087427154849795

He doesn't seem to mention what third party completed the audit, and given what we know about FTX's accounting now that means it was either an internal audit or SBF was lying.

Coindesk seems to have obtained the audited financials and reported on them: https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/11/18/a-complete-failur...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#354

Post by jefftk »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #277
jefftk wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prager Metis for international, Armanino for US: https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/11/meet-the-metave...

Prager Metis and Armanino worked with FTX, but I can’t find anything showing they completed an audit. (Far from blameless. Both seem riddled with issues [1].) [1] https://www.ibtimes.com/crypto-auditors-under-fire-ftx-meltd...

"CoinDesk obtained the audited financial statements of West Realm Shires, also known as FTX US, and FTX Trading Ltd., the combined offshore Bahamas-based entity that includes an exchange catering to non-U.S. customers and Alameda, the proprietary trading operation. It’s not clear why FTX commissioned two different audit firms to audit its 2020 and 2021 financial statements. The reports by Armanino LLP, which signed the report for the U.S. operation, and by Prager Metis LLP, which signed the opinion for the offshore operations, were issued at the end of March 2022."

https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/11/18/a-complete-failur...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#355

Post by stevebmark »

Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

Any investor who believes any exchange has the assets they say it does deserves to lose their money.

It takes a special kind of ignorant blindness not to see that "reserves" are all based on fake, wash-trade inflated cryptocurrency valuation, and it's all a house of cards. Like FTX. Like all of them.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#356

Post by willcipriano »

jacquesm wrote: post #8
nayuki wrote: post #6

> “We are financially OK,” said Zhao Where have we heard this before? Oh yeah: FTX is fine. Assets are fine.

Interesting how the players change but the script is exactly the same and yet, people keep falling for it. I really don't get it. I once knew some people that were up to their necks in an MLM/pyramid scheme, it was like a cult, no matter how many examples you gave them of people ending up losing their shirts they would buy more of the crap and stuff it in every nook and cranny of their house being sure that they were…

Everyone knows it's a scam, they are all just betting they won't be the last sucker out the door. The people you see hyping this stuff are all, save for a clueless minority of largely actual children, doing so hoping to bring in a few more rubes to drive the price up and exit. Sometimes (always if you aren't on the inside to know when the rug is going to be pulled) you are the rube and you try to recoop your losses. MLM works the same way "If I only could get a few more people to sign up under me, then I'd be able to get some of my money back."

In magic/mentalism I think this technique is called "instant stooge"[0], basically play off the agreeable nature of people to get them to shill for you once, at that point they are trapped and you can escalate the ask. Come to think of it cults work the same way, after you made a fool out of yourself it's easier to double down rather than see yourself as a fool.

In short, most people aren't victims but instead aspiring coconspirators who didn't make the cut.

[0]https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-instant-stooging-in-mag...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#357

Post by species9606 »

digitaltrees wrote: post #347
moffkalast wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binance just unverified everyone yet again , it's safe to say they're trying to prevent people from pulling out.

Maybe CZs attempt to take down a competitor by leaking information wasn’t a good idea after all. Sad to see people hurt as it backfires in his face. No amount of public relations or spin will save binance at this point. The run has begun. It will seem slow at first and then all at once. The only thing that would save it would be a bail out by the Chinese government.

As CZ has said repeatedly, they’re not a Chinese company. If the CCP bails them out, they’ll have an entirely new set of reputation problems.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#358

Post by taejavu »

dicomdan wrote: post #303
not_enoch_wise wrote: post #242

A company under criminal investigation might have solvency issues? Someone got a set of pearls I can clutch? https://fortune.com/crypto/2022/12/12/binance-investigation-...

Binance is China-owned so there's no problems, all criminal allegations are false, company is in great shape, and customer's assets are safe. What about Coinbase?

Is this sarcasm?

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#359

Post by digitaltrees »

CPLX wrote: post #351
that_guy_iain wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's the ruthlessness of dumping all the FTT tokens they had to crash FTX to buy it (which went pear shape once they saw FTX's books) makes me think that they're probably not in a strong of a position as they say they are. We see this all the time. Exchanges saying they're strong and assets are safe until suddenly a few hours later they're not.

Is there some other action you can recommend for someone holding FTT tokens other than selling them immediately for the best price you can get?

Well hopefully it’s money you don’t need and can afford to lose. If so, ride it out and hope the Chinese government is propping up Bihance

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#360

Post by crtified »

europeanguy wrote: post #245
funstuff007 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my poetic license path is very heavy withdrawals -> bank run -> dire straits (money for nothing pun). $60B in assets, $8B in withdrawals. Even if all the assets are correctly valued, I don't anyone would envy their position. But given their own coin in holding in there, maybe they are devoting some money to defend it, or maybe they are actually in decent shape and can handle this quasi bank run. More succinctly,…

> if they were really toast, then $BNB would be cratering Why exactly, though? That's what I'm asking. I promise I'm not trolling, I just don't understand the connection.

Well it has lost about one quarter of it's value VS Bitcoin in the past 3 weeks. Whether or not that fits the definition of cratering is up to the individual.

27 Nov: 1 BNB = 0.0188 Bitcoin; 17 Dec: 1 BNB = 0.0142 Bitcoin

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