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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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351–360 of 704 posts

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be a relation to military conditioning. I spent just a single week at a military academy introductory program in high school and when I returned home I was "uncontrollably" (if I thought about it I could avoid doing it, but if I was on autopilot it happened by itself) squaring my corners and calling my family "sir" and "ma'am". The thing was, those patterns were my entire life for that week, and they were v…

I love "deinforce" as an antonym to "reinforce". The standard way to say it would maybe be "deemphasised", but it lacks the symmetry of "deinforced".

In behavioural psychology the antonym is "punish". There are positive/negative axes (whether a stimulus is added or removed) and reinforcement/punishment axes (whether the consequence is desired).

Negative reinforcement is what boot camp uses. If you square your corners, you won't get shouted at. The "negative" aspect relates to the lack of shouting, and the reinforcement relates to the fact that the shouting is unpleasant.

At home, positive punishment would be making fun of the tendencies, and negative punishment would have meant receiving no validation for the behaviour.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#352
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender. It's very, very simple. There always have been about 10% of people who are left-handed - but for a time in history, teachers and societ…

There's no denying that gender dysphoria exists and has always existed. OP made the claim that it might be statistically over-represented. Looking at the Hijra example, it looks like the Hijra demographics are around 0.5-1% of the population. In the latest polls [0], the proportion of Gen Z that identify as transgender is over 2%. Is there repression/stigma in South Asia keeping some people in the closet? Is the cult…

According to Gallup's poll, which they present as estimates, it is 0.7% in the US. In India, 0.6% people self-identified as hijra (Sahastrabuddhe et al., 2012). In the 2011 census in India, 0.04% answered with "Other" when asked to choose between "Male", "Female" and "Other".

Canada included the question in their latest census. In my opinion, a mandatory government census provides data that is more accurate than Gallup's phone poll.

"In Canada, 0.2% of the population aged 18 and older was transgender in 2021. Belgium (0.5% among people aged 18 to 75 in 2021) and New Zealand (0.5% among people aged 18 and older in 2020) have also published representative survey-based data on their transgender populations."

"The proportions of transgender and non-binary people were three to seven times higher for Generation Z (born between 1997 and 2006, 0.79%) and millennials (born between 1981 and 1996, 0.51%) than for Generation X (born between 1966 and 1980, 0.19%), baby boomers (born between 1946 and 1965, 0.15%) and the Interwar and Greatest Generations (born in 1945 or earlier, 0.12%)."

"Other countries have published 2021 data on transgender people using crowdsourcing and non-representative surveys, including Ireland (0.6% among people aged 18 and older), England and Wales (0.6% among people aged 16 and older), and the United States (0.8% among people aged 18 and older)."

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#353
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. Don't fall into the trap of assuming that 1950's Western norms are a 'baseline.' History shows us that almost all expressions of gender are fluid. The idea of "men and women need to be segregated in certain places (particularly when nude) and must dress differently' is likely the…

> ... and must dress differently Operating based on a sampling of women I know - Im going to perform an experiment - I have some clothes of mine that I (Male with a capital M) no longer wear and Im going to give them to some Female friends for their own use. We'll see what happens but I bet Im going to be met with confusing expressions and laughed at - at best. Men and women do not dress differently on the count of s…

>Operating based on a sampling of women I know

How big and diverse is that sample?

>You can slice it 6 different ways but outside of a small minority

How small is that minority?

>the vast majority of women want to "be pretty"

Are you implying that there's an objective idea of 'pretty' as it relates to fashion? That a woman in pants can't be 'pretty'? Can I point you to powerful men in high-heeled shoes in the 10th Century? Lots of women were attracted to that back then, because of what it meant from a societal standpoint.

Or are you implying that it's fine for men to dress in women's clothes? Because if so then why are we here?

>I realize this is a terribly "incorrect" thing to say

It's not 'incorrect,' it's intellectually lazy.

>I personally do not understand why a minority of people choosing alternative, non-birth gender roles needs to be cast into some movement where everyones gender is in question.

Luckily, that's a strawman so you can stop being confused by it.

> History shows us that almost all expressions of gender are fluid

Again, are high heels for boys or girls? History's opinion will surprise you!

Now listen, outside of snark, I understand its hard to see outside of the environment you've lived for your entire life, but this is a forum for hackers so maybe be a little bit more open to people questioning and challenging things you hold dear?

EDIT: You know what, here's one of many phenomenon that you seem to be unaware of:

Although Europeans were first attracted to heels because the Persian connection gave them a macho air, a craze in women's fashion for adopting elements of men's dress meant their use soon spread to women and children.

"In the 1630s you had women cutting their hair, adding epaulettes to their outfits," says Semmelhack.

"They would smoke pipes, they would wear hats that were very masculine. And this is why women adopted the heel - it was in an effort to masculinise their outfits."

From that time, Europe's upper classes followed a unisex shoe fashion until the end of the 17th Century, when things began to change again.

"You start seeing a change in the heel at this point," says Helen Persson, a curator at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. "Men started to have a squarer, more robust, lower, stacky heel, while women's heels became more slender, more curvaceous."

[Citation - https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21151350]

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#354
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. Don't fall into the trap of assuming that 1950's Western norms are a 'baseline.' History shows us that almost all expressions of gender are fluid. The idea of "men and women need to be segregated in certain places (particularly when nude) and must dress differently' is likely the…

> ...if it didn't come with so much societal baggage. Isn't societal baggage also a perception issue? Take 10 people with all the same physical traits and the same social situation and you will get 10 different perspectives. Why should I accept there is _any_ baggage as a fact? It may just appear so for a massive amount of people, and _that_ could be fluid.

So you're telling me that a boy who identifies as a boy is fine to change with the girls at PE and do their activities?

OR is there 'baggage' to being a boy in this scenario?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#355

From my reading of the article (which is hard to parse not being an expert) it seems there is a German YouTuber with Tourette's who also on his YouTube shows displays non-tourette's tics. And these tics are being copied by other young people watching his shows, and being presented as Tourette's until they arrive at the clinic where these experts go "hang on this kid does not have Tourette's but does have tics similar…

It's plausible [1] [2].

I am by all accounts neurotypical (except perhaps for a touch of Aspergers) but I have an involuntary tic. Every now and then (like once or twice a week) a memory of some incredibly stupid thing that I once did -- sometimes decades ago -- will pop into my head and before I can re-establish conscious control I'll make a vocalization that sounds like a cross between a whimper and a sneeze. It's kind of embarrassing, but usually I cover it up with a cough afterwards. I don't think anyone has ever actually noticed except me.

---

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earworm

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thought

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#356
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender. It's very, very simple. There always have been about 10% of people who are left-handed - but for a time in history, teachers and societ…

There's no denying that gender dysphoria exists and has always existed. OP made the claim that it might be statistically over-represented. Looking at the Hijra example, it looks like the Hijra demographics are around 0.5-1% of the population. In the latest polls [0], the proportion of Gen Z that identify as transgender is over 2%. Is there repression/stigma in South Asia keeping some people in the closet? Is the cult…

[dead]

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#357

There's a new Netflix series called Hot Skull around this theme. I haven't watched it yet but it looks like the premise is that a word virus infects people and they start talking gibberish.

Hey Hiro. You want to try some Snow Crash?

Does it fuck up your brain, or your computer?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#358
This is the next big area of research in social sciences. You must research this for national security reasons. Early research came in with the idea of mirror neurons but it went further.

Statistically you're always going to have 'hot spots' for suicide. # per capita etc. So governments trying to help setup suicide hotlines. Not much uptake on this. So they advertised the suicide hotline and suddenly has mass suicide problems.

Been replicated/reported many times, even on Canadian reserves. Cultural, racial doesnt seem to change anything.

Then you have the general crisis in mental health where suddenly lots of people think they have some sort of disorder. Lots of OCD, when really they dont have anything. But it came from advertising and awareness campaigns.

Do the flipside, how about all the motivational speakers who abuse this same mechanism but in a good way? Same with mentalists.

How about people who are being radicalized into violence? How about all the kids suddenly becoming trans? All the same umbrella which social sciences is working on.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#359
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...if it didn't come with so much societal baggage. Isn't societal baggage also a perception issue? Take 10 people with all the same physical traits and the same social situation and you will get 10 different perspectives. Why should I accept there is _any_ baggage as a fact? It may just appear so for a massive amount of people, and _that_ could be fluid.

So you're telling me that a boy who identifies as a boy is fine to change with the girls at PE and do their activities? OR is there 'baggage' to being a boy in this scenario?

I am just saying many of these things are subjective, and just because someone says "it's baggage" doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#360
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're telling me that a boy who identifies as a boy is fine to change with the girls at PE and do their activities? OR is there 'baggage' to being a boy in this scenario?

I am just saying many of these things are subjective, and just because someone says "it's baggage" doesn't mean it is for everyone.

Please answer my question directly.

Is it 'subjective' that many activities are segregated by gender in the West?

If a person doesn't like that, how is it not a logical response to try to change their gender?

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