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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#351

Post by jen20 »

yibg wrote: post #321
RHSeeger wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of people that want things to be fair at the individual level ("that person gets time off for a child, but that other, childless person works the whole time")... but don't see the greater "benefit to society overall" part of it. It's not necessarily that they're being greedy; it may not even be something that would benefit them directly. They just never consider that they're paying a cost for th…

In some cases it’s probably legitimately “unfair”. Me for example am probably at the more unfair end. I - have high income so pay a large % into taxes - not a citizen so don’t enjoy some of the benefits of military protection - wasn’t raised here so didn’t use any of the earlier year services - likely won’t retire here so won’t use those either Most of my tax dollars goes to fund others in the country. But as a socie…

> not a citizen so don’t enjoy some of the benefits of military protection

Can you explain what you mean by this part?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#352

Post by jen20 »

bernulli wrote: post #337
RHSeeger wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of people that want things to be fair at the individual level ("that person gets time off for a child, but that other, childless person works the whole time")... but don't see the greater "benefit to society overall" part of it. It's not necessarily that they're being greedy; it may not even be something that would benefit them directly. They just never consider that they're paying a cost for th…

It really is a tragedy of the commons with a changing demographic, where DINK are more prevalent that, say, 50 years ago, where most tried to contribute to raising the next generation. But the amount of entitlement still baffles me - where do these people think everyone younger than them comes from? How much time and money do they think it costs to train a human being to be a member of society, of benefit to them!, a…

> DINK are more prevalent that, say, 50 years ago

A good standard of living was possible with a single income 50 years ago (just). It's barely possible today with two average incomes in much of the US.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#353

Post by jen20 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #210
croes wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like paying schools from taxes and never have kids, or paying fire fighters and your house never burns. It's called society.

Well I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly, like water instead of having it obfuscated in general taxation. I prefer user fees not taxation. as for schools, to the extent I support their funding (which is more limited than I suspect you do) it is generally ethically justified because I too attended schools paid for by taxation, so in that manner I paying off a debt vs paying for others…

> and I absolutely reject the idea of a "social contract"

The very definition of a sociopath.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#354

Post by tmnvdb »

outside1234 wrote: post #195
sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

Which is why you make 50% less by the way. Not dumping on the laws, which I think are great, and are probably worth it overall, but there is a cost.

The median Dutch person makes more per working hour than the median American. They just work around 400hrs per year less.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#355

Post by numpad0 »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #282
pridkett wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not that terrible idea - it removes some of the stigma and potentially helps ensure the program provides value rather than just being a checkbox on the way to termination.

>> it removes some of the stigma Stigma around being on a corrective performance plan should be removed?

punishment is for reinforcement. Our brains are just not sophisticated enough to regularly reevaluate forecasts and stop the chain of events, but do at most trigger on known initial condition, trace and recreate the precedents all the way through to the pain, then just exit with an exit code.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#356

Post by MomoXenosaga »

warent wrote: post #208
Symbiote wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure there are systems in place in these countries which actually make it possible. right? Like, there are insurances and government assistance programs that businesses use to pay for things like parental leave. US businesses get no such help. So what is often attributed to US business greed is actually political greed, while businesses are just casualties.

That would be a fair point if US businesses weren't donating to the GoP en masse.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#357

Post by phpisthebest »

RHSeeger wrote: post #292
phpisthebest wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly, like water instead of having it obfuscated in general taxation. I prefer user fees not taxation. as for schools, to the extent I support their funding (which is more limited than I suspect you do) it is generally ethically justified because I too attended schools paid for by taxation, so in that manner I paying off a debt vs paying for others…

> I would prefer they send me a bill directly for fire services monthly The problem is that then some people opt out. If enough people do that, it's no longer financially viable to have a fire service. > I absolutely reject the idea of a "social contract" Which is fine, but then don't live in the society. As a society, we have decided what is important for the benefit of the society; fire departments, law enforcement…

>>The problem is that then some people opt out. If enough people do that, it's no longer financially viable to have a fire service.

Aside from the fact that since most homes are covered by a mortgage and mortgage companies would require that as a condition of a loan, no where did I really say to make it optional. I simply said I wanted an itmized bill for the service

I am required to have water service turned on as part of occupancy, I can not turn off the water service to home even if I wanted to live completely on bottled water, it would be against local ordinances. I am required to pay that bill monthly, if I turn it off I would get fined by the city, and at some point they would take my home

I am also required to mow my grass, and other such things, I fail to see why fire services would be any different.

>It's not all that different than living in an apartment with a few other people.

You are correct on that front, I despise apartment living and I also despise HOA which is why I took great care to avoid both in my life.

If star link or a competitor proves to be very successful and gets to be cost effective then Rural living may even be in the cards for me, one the only reasons I moved to where I did was because of the availability of high speed fiber optic service.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#358

Post by phpisthebest »

therouwboat wrote: post #279
phpisthebest wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has the very very close connotation to "from each according to ability to each according to need" I live a very frugle life, my expenses are low, I have no kids, I dont take expensive vacations, drive a fancy car, etc... So should that mean I do not get time off, or high raises, etc simply because my "needs" are not the same as a co-worker? Why should a co-workers personal life choices (i.e the choice to have 1…

Maybe you should talk to your boss and ask for more, instead complaining about others.

I am in the US and I do pick my employers based on these kinds of policies because their is no government mandate.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#359

Post by MomoXenosaga »

outside1234 wrote: post #195
sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

Which is why you make 50% less by the way. Not dumping on the laws, which I think are great, and are probably worth it overall, but there is a cost.

Depends, America is a good place for the upper middle class and a paradise for millionaires. The rest of society-the majority lest we forget- is not so well off.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#360

Post by smcl »

phpisthebest wrote: post #212
isodev wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are not charities created to employ people. And employees are not charities for their employers! If you can't afford the staff needed for a given task, perhaps you should pivot to something else.

Right you are paid X currency for X labor. How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity/

Well you're actually paid a fraction of every X dollars of value you produce
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