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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#351

Post by tester756 »

bush-bby wrote: post #163
tester756 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which is essentially nothing. Holy shit. Is it some sign of being on HN too much? Sure, 1.45% is small, because % is shitty at representing the real value at this point at the end of the day it's fucking $4 000 000 000 It's year salary of 2200 well paid engineers That's industry-changing level of possibilities

1.8 mil is “well-payed”…?

ops, I've taken annual salary as monthly :D

I wanted to have 150k per person, thus "well-paid".

This way it is even more ridiculous since

4 000 000 000 / 150 000 = 26 666 engineers!

but, 1.8 mil is definitely well paid!

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#352

Post by scarface74 »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #340
scarface74 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the aim is to prevent eWaste yes. Someone should be able to buy a “standard” USB access cable and know that it actually work across devices if it is government mandated. If not, what’s the point of the “standard”?

Well like you say, it is to prevent ewaste. And even the cheapest power only USB cables with the cheapest USB power supply provides "standard" 5V power. If your device doesn't accept that, isn't that a problem with your Macbook and not the cable?

How far do you think a 5W USB C cable will get charging a 16 inch laptop?

The USB standard is fine until the unsuspecting consumer who left the USB C cord to his MacBook Pro 16 goes to a random drug store to pick up a standard “USB C” cable and wonders why their laptop is still going dead after a few hours of heavy use not knowing the cord is incapable of delivering 100W of power.

Or the hypothetical iPhone 16 user goes to the same store because he wants to watch video on his TV and buys a “standard” USB C cable and finds out that the cable doesn’t support video over USB C - which is part of the standard.

Not to mention the unsuspecting tourist who wants to back up the pictures and video from his phone to his computer so he won’t incur roaming charges and finds out the USB C cable he purchased is power only.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#353

Post by ehsankia »

nottorp wrote: post #38

> Android has created more choice for everyone, not less Did it? I can choose between an iOS phone and an Android phone. I may be able to choose from different manufacturers on the Android side, but on the software side there are just two options.

But what did Google do that's worse than what Apple did? It's a bit ironic that by making their OS opensource, they somehow are more guilty than Apple for keeping their OS locked down.

Android allows hundreds of companies to have a business and make millions or billions, many of which are in EU and wouldn't exist if Android had gone the Apple way.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#354

Post by sangnoir »

Hamcha wrote: post #309
sangnoir wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Microsoft YT client didn't play ads. All it did was cost YouTube bandwidth without bringing any revenue - there was no way Google was going to let that slide. More broadly, that was also the time Microsoft was going after Android OEMs - never Google directly - threatening them with a secret list of patents that Android allegedly infringed[1]. The settlement almost always resulted in the OEM agreeing to manufactur…

Far from me to want to put Microsoft on a pedestal, but it always felt like neither liked playing fair. WP eventually got a third party Youtube app that kinda stuck for a while, but it was paid (and actually decent) and AFAIK it never got any attention from Google, which to me always felt more like Google was trying to be an ass and protecting their revenue... but mostly their Android revenue. I was around when Proje…

Project Astoria had weird timing, considering Microsoft initially submitted an amicus brief in Oracle v Google on Oracle's side, i.e. supporting the notion that APIs are copyrightable - which was awkward as Astoria implemented Android APIs. Sometime later, after both sides appealed, MS submitted another amicus - this time on Google's side. Possibly after seeing the light with WSL and Astoria

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#355

Post by kergonath »

edgyquant wrote: post #273
tremon wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're accusing others of acting in bad faith you need to substantiate that. With a proper argument. Otherwise you're not acting in good faith yourself.

I wouldn’t use the term bad faith but it’s clear the EU wants American big tech out

The EU very regularly fines European companies. AFAIK there is no statistics showing a preference towards investigating American companies. Though that is certainly the case for large software companies, simply by due to the fact that there are more of them and with larger revenues than European ones.

Have you any evidence, numerical or otherwise, to substantiate your assertion?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#356

Post by ThatPlayer »

scarface74 wrote: post #352
ThatPlayer wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well like you say, it is to prevent ewaste. And even the cheapest power only USB cables with the cheapest USB power supply provides "standard" 5V power. If your device doesn't accept that, isn't that a problem with your Macbook and not the cable?

How far do you think a 5W USB C cable will get charging a 16 inch laptop? The USB standard is fine until the unsuspecting consumer who left the USB C cord to his MacBook Pro 16 goes to a random drug store to pick up a standard “USB C” cable and wonders why their laptop is still going dead after a few hours of heavy use not knowing the cord is incapable of delivering 100W of power. Or the hypothetical iPhone 16 user g…

Once again, you're letting perfect be the enemy of good. A 5W USB C cable will charge faster than the perfect universal cable standard that doesn't exist.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#357

Post by manholio »

ignaloidas wrote: post #80
manholio wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also apparently spend 1 billion per year on translators. Now that the UK is out of the Union, it would be nice for sanity to prevail and most of those translators be made redundant. Except for drafting official multi-language legal documents, the bulk of the proceedings can go on in English, and EMPs that require translation services should request them from their own countries. It will never happen, but one c…

EU publishes tons of written material, and basically all of it has to be translated. Costs for translating the proceedings are very likely less than 1% of total costs for translation.

> EU publishes tons of written material, and basically all of it has to be translated.

But only legislative text needs to have translated versions officially recognized as equivalent. The rest can be produced and published in English, and member countries can translate them as required, if necessary. It's a huge expense that exists only to placate French linguistic nationalism.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#358

Post by genewitch »

scarface74 wrote: post #324
ThatPlayer wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the mandate is not about phones or data. It's about battery powered devices and charging. I don't need data in the cable for my wireless earbuds, or my battery pack. My toothbrush or my beard trimmer. So that hypothetical USB C cable doesn't have to be thrown away, it can still be used for other devices. Which is why standardization is good.

So grab a random “standard” USB C cable. What are the chances that it will charge my MacBook Pro 16 inch that does support “standard” USB C? Will that “standard” USB C cable that comes with my Beats Flex headphones charge my iPhone 12 Pro Max? My Anker battery?

can it "charge"? yes. The charging circuitry either can query the output voltage of the power supply, or knows what the voltage should be (on insertion, 5VDC) and determines if the wire is too small or too long to support higher wattage. There's a reason that quickcharge et al use 9, 12, 18 volts, same wattage, but compatible with any of old, too long, or too small gauge wires.

You'll notice weirdness with anything that speaks a different language, i think USB defaults to power delivery, which is 5V @ 2.5A - or whatever. If your charger speaks the same protocol as your device, it will get as much power as it can through whatever cable you use.

this doesn't speak to other comments about "high speed USB C" - i have plenty of power delivery cables that do decent wattage but cannot transfer data, it doesn't even beep the computer when you plug something in to it.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#359

Post by kernal »

slaw wrote: post #242
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google chose that path, other manufacturers would still need an OS to put on their phones - and it's likely Windows Phone would be the contender. So maybe we'd live in a world with 3 mobile OS's and more competition. The point is, the alternative scenario involves more actors making different choices.

We would live in a world with 2 mobile OS's iOS and Windows Phone. Android would land in Google Graveyard.

Windows Phone was always destined to fall. There is no scenario in which Windows Phone would not been beaten into irrelevance by Google and by Microsoft's own actions in undermining their underwhelming and unpopular mobile OS.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#360

Post by Dylan16807 »

origin_path wrote: post #146
Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

"consumer choice ... insisting all mobile phones standardise" Although it's not the most important thing in the world, forcing standardization through law is the opposite of giving consumers choices.

You lose choice of plug, which almost nobody wanted.

You gain choice of charger to use with your phone, which most people do want, especially when outside their home.

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