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Plastic might be making us obese

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#351

Post by jjallen »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #328
scoofy wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to be an extremely challenging thesis to explain the phenomena, as HFCS and sucrose are effectively chemically identical once they hit the stomach.

Yes, but HFCS is cheaper. Cheaper means it ends up in more products. Cheaper means more gets consumed. I mentioned in another comment above that circa 2003-ish the NYT Sunday mag ran an opinion piece that proposed that gov subsidies of corn were contributing to the obesity crisis. Lower corn prices === lower price for HFCS === more HFCS in more products === more products at lower prices === more sweetener calories be…

Sugar is negligibly expensive. It's just so cheap. In a wealthy region such as W. Europe, I can't even see the price differential mattering.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#352

Post by jjallen »

dorchadas wrote: post #288
jjallen wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American living in Europe. There is sugar in every packaged food here too just FYI. And not just in the country I live in, it's basically everywhere in grocery stores. So sugar is not the only culprit.

I'm an American in Europe, and really, what I've noticed here is it's natural sugar in stuff, whereas in America it's HFCS. I can't help but wonder if that's part of the difference. I list 5-10kg easily without watching what I ate (and drank much more cause there's nothing else to do of an evening in Ireland), while keeping the same activity level or slightly less. There's something different in the food, and I can't…

It IS _natural_ sugar in stuff, not HFCS. You are right about that.

So that is one difference.

But let's look at the other differences between W. Europe (this is the Europe I am thinking of at least).

1.There are ZERO local national restaurant chains in this country. Zero Chipotles, zero In-n-outs. The only national food chains are McDonald's and Burger King.

2. There are zero drive-thru restaurants. Not even starbucks. So food is not as easy to get.

3. There are fewer restaurants in general.

4. When you do go out to a restaurant the portions are smaller. I haven't weighed two things, but my best estimate is about 1/3 less. For instance, where I live, the local burrito "chain" of two locations, the burritos are about one-third smaller while the portion of chips that come with it is 60-70% smaller.

5. The food here costs more when going to a restaurant. There is no way to get a full meal for less than $10. A Mcdonald's combo meal is $15-$19. So food costs twice as much. Mcdonald's portions are not way smaller than the US, but every other restaurant's are. Because a meal is 50-100% more expensive and you get smaller portions, food is actually 3x the cost. This, obviously, has the effect of people eating less.

6. A greater percentage of people live and work in cities in Europe than the States [citation needed; would love to know the actual number]. So they probably burning 100-200 more calories a day because of this.

7. There are also zero billboards for any industry. So way less food advertising to go along with that.

These are the differences I think that make the biggest difference. There is simply less of an emphasis on food too.

But portion size, which is culture, and amount of physical activity are what I personally believe make the biggest difference.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#353

Post by zaptheimpaler »

kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

BMI really isn't comparable across races. A better measure of body fat with regards to its predictive power on health outcomes is "central adiposity" i.e belly size. Asians tend to preferentially accumulate fat around the belly and have lower BMIs at similar body fat %s compared to EU and Americans. I know i've seen this tendency in myself and a lot of other Asians. There are some studies about it too [1].

Asians have as much or more heart disease and type 2 diabetes as any other race which is the outcome that actually matters.

It seems to be a broader problem in medicine. A lot of ranges and typical levels on blood tests or other quantitative tests are calibrated to native populations. With more immigration and genetic mixing the levels don't make a lot of sense.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8617748/

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#354

Post by bergenty »

kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

What exactly is a non Hispanic Asian? Aren’t virtually all Asians non Hispanic?

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#355

Post by bergenty »

kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

Asians effectively use body shaming and community/peer pressure to essentially mold people into staying fit.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#356

Post by bergenty »

kgilpin wrote: post #231
kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

Is it lower consumption of alcohol?

Asians consume a lot of alcohol including Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and Indians.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#357

Post by bergenty »

hollywood_court wrote: post #273
imeron wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that Japanese actively shame fat people! This is very much frown upon in Western societies but it works for them I guess.

Shame should be a powerful motivator. It doesn’t seem to work too well in the west though.

It does except we don’t shame people completely as a society, we have a lot of niches and self assuring peer groups that negates the shame coming from some segment of the population.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#358

Post by astrange »

bergenty wrote: post #355
kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

Asians effectively use body shaming and community/peer pressure to essentially mold people into staying fit.

That shouldn’t help unless they know effective ways to stay fit. According to the article that’s avoiding microplastics, which is not what Asian mothers are harassing their daughters into doing.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#359

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

naikrovek wrote: post #333
hollywood_court wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose I should have clarified that I don’t advocate for shaming others. But personal shame and shame avoidance has been the single greatest tool for my own success.

if you've come through that unharmed you're a miracle. shame is a fantastic motivator and holy cow is it one of the most caustic things ever to the recipient's psyche.

If your countrymen allow you to make it to a "600lbs life" without abject comment, then they have done you a disservice; certainly you're bound to feel more shame and discomfort dealing with being in that state.

Re: Plastic might be making us obese

#360

Post by astrange »

noja wrote: post #269
kccqzy wrote: post #210

If a factor can't explain why non-Hispanic Asians have much lower prevalence of obesity than any other race, I tend not to trust it. Are Asians simply using less plastic than other races? Look at the chart: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db288.pdf The chart is simply striking. We should all be investigating what are the Asians doing right that all of us should learn from.

Why does the Mediterranean diet work so well? Because of the socialized healthcare. (in other words: "it's not the diet dummy", just like it's not the plastic)

It’s because birth certificates are particularly unreliable in that region, which causes it to appear to have older people than it actually does.
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