Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#351

Post by willcipriano » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #266

WalterBright wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a right to be stupid, even if it results in your death. > I'd assume having a seatbelt on as a driver significantly increases your ability to maintain at least some control of a vehicle in a collision Not a chance. The g forces are tremendous, and you're just along for the ride in a collision. In my major accident, I had a lap belt on, but my arms and legs and torso flung about totally out of my control.

> You have a right to be stupid, even if it results in your death. Do you? I’ve not seen hide nor hair of that right defined anywhere.

Certainly you have seen "My body, my choice".

It isn't respected as it should be but I would consider it a natural right to do what you will with your own body. If you don't own that, what do you own? Bodily autonomy is the core of all human rights if you think about it.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#352

Post by thecatwentup » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #315

Never owned a car of my own until two years ago. Our car has been hit three times in the last two years. Once totaled on the high way (another drivers fault) and twice while parked. Roughly 50K in damages across the two cars and 3 months in the shop doing repairs. We spent 20K on a new car after the old one was totaled and insurance paid out a fraction of what a similar car would cost. We've paid close to 2K in deduc…

Another anecdote on the other side of this: I've been driving since I was 15 for many thousands of miles and have only been involved in two incidents. Both my fault involving icy roads, but both where so minor that only paint damage occurred (no insurance involved). I live in the north-eastern United States for reference. Edit: I wouldn't say that my driving style is cautious either, I do drive attentively though.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#353

Post by ArnoVW » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #283

WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wearing a seatbelt is an individual choice, and should not be a crime. P.S. Growing up, my dad had the dealer install seatbelts in the family wagon before he picked it up. We never moved an inch unless everyone was buckled up. Nobody else, and I mean nobody else, had seatbelts in their car at the time. P.P.S. Seatbelts also saved my life.

Its a choice that effects others. When you get ejected from the crash and hit someone else's car. When we have to shut down the interstate north and south bound for 3 hours to do a full reconstruction. When we have to do a death notification. Dealing with a dead body isnt a big deal. Your mind kinda puts it in the pile of "just evidence". Working the fatality is easy. The hard part is the death notification. Having t…

Yup. Also, that's the Good scenario. What if you are unfortunate, and don't die, but just become paraplegic? Aside from the financial impact on society (unless you are a millionaire, you'll end up needing help) you'll spend the rests of your life regretting your choice of not wearing a seatbelt.

I somehow suspect that we should just call them "freedom belts" and enshrine them in the constitution.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#354

Post by skeeter2020 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #303

jjcm wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally it's required, but I think their point is it should be required by hardware. Right now most new cars just beep at you, but you can still operate them.

We never pushed for it politically because it wouldn't change anything but it would piss people off. You can simply buckle the seatbelt with nobody in the seat, then sit down, and the requirement is defeated. On the other hand, a mandatory breathalyzer for ignition would be useful to prevent a lone driver from driving drunk. We already have them for people with DUIs, so we should make them mandatory for all cars.

>> We already have them for people with DUIs, so we should make them mandatory for all cars.

Yes, because the idea that every single person should now start doing what historically only a reprehensible convicted drunk driver was required to do will go over so well.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#355

Post by ajmurmann » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

admax88qqq wrote: post #272

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

> Something like 80% of fatal crashes involve either alcohol, no seatbelt, or excessive speed This is the crux of the issue on why we as a society ignore car crashes and panic about train/plane crashes. I'd wager it mostly comes down to filtering out things we feel we have control over stressing about those we don't.

I think you are definitely on to something here. For the alcohol and speeding I wonder how many of the fatalities are people other than the person speeding or drunk. I am not even thinking about passengers, but people in other cars, bicyclists or pedestrians.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#356

Post by sssilver » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #273

flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

> A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. My summary is different: if thousands of people die because the government specifically puts them in harm's way but doesn't give them the best available protection against…

I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted. You have a coherent and well presented point of view. Are downvotes supposed to mean disagreement? If so, this community will rapidly devolve into an echo chamber.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#357

Post by robotresearcher » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #333

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Patrol officer I knew said once "I never unbuckled a dead man"

It's a nice zinger, but obviously false.

The quote is not "No one ever unbuckled a dead man".

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#358

Post by briffle » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

colpabar wrote: post #168

flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

This is totally off topic, but aside from the numbers being lower, we do the exact same thing with gun deaths.

I have a few friends that think the stats I show them are a complete lie and fabrication, but the truth is: more people from pistols than 'assault rifles'. In fact, in the US, more people die from knives than rifles. (not just the 'assualt ones' Heck more people per year in the US die of 'hands, fists, and feet'. [0]

But guess what is always in the news, and talked about by politicians on both sides, until their constituents are whipped in a frenzy, donating to their campaign, and can no longer see the other side as humans anymore...

[0] https://www.criminalattorneycolumbus.com/which-weapons-are-m...

[1] https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/202...

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#359

Post by colpabar » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

jvm___ wrote: post #184

colpabar wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally off topic, but aside from the numbers being lower, we do the exact same thing with gun deaths.

Which baffles the rest of the world as we see the aggregate number and are dumbfounded that nothing is done.

As an extremely cynical american, my view is that we don't do anything because guns are a big industry in america, and industry controls our government in all the places that matter.

But my point was more that we only ever talk about gun violence when a very specific type of gun violence occurs, and pointing out the incidents that constitute the bulk of the aggregate number usually gets you called a racist.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#360

Post by pastacacioepepe » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:29 PM UTC

kjksf wrote: post #212

googlryas wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense because, for most of America, we have designed our environment to be heavily dependent on the possibilities cars open up for us. It is not the same with air or train travel. Those are useful, but not necessary for almost all people.

Tilting at windmills here but: US is not some unique country designed for cars and other countries are not some car-free utopias. Per: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... US is 7th country on cars / people metric, below New Zealand and just above Poland. Yet this is upteenth time I read that US is "designed" around cars as if dependance on cars was some unique property of US.

> US is 7th country on cars / people metric, below New Zealand and just above Poland.

It doesn't really matter when US has 56 times the cars of the first 6 countries combined.

You're comparing San Marino (a small city) with the entirety the US. It's just noise.

Consider also that San Marino, Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein and Malta are all very small and rich countries. It is normal for the wealthy to own more cars than necessary. Not so normal for tens of millions of americans who live currently under the threshold of poverty.

I suspect the other countries could do with way less cars, americans would still need more than they have (given the lacking public infrastructure) but can't afford them.