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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#351

Post by enos_feedler »

Gareth321 wrote: post #286
enos_feedler wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, Apple can still charge software companies whatever they want to allow software to run on the phones. Nothing says anything about the business elements of these user experiences. So if anyone thinks this law is going to take money from gatekeepers and put it into the pockets of app publishers they are kidding themselves

>And yet, Apple can still charge software companies whatever they want to allow software to run on the phones. This is explicitly disallowed in the legislation. See page 131: >The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via…

The simple work around is to provide lower quality of service to all of the platforms features and claim it is the only way to achieve _effective_ interoperability without jeopardizing the user experience

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#352

Post by [deleted] »

plandis wrote: post #251

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#353

Post by tirpen »

sfe22 wrote: post #320
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements.

So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#354

Post by SomeHacker44 »

nemothekid wrote: post #178
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

Then... stop using Instagram?

Build operating system level controls that function regardless of app source?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#355

Post by paganel »

toyg wrote: post #309
paganel wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how much the Republicans have started to like on Apple and Google again, there's no way a European Union starving for gas come winter-time would impose a 10-20% cut of the turnover to two out of the 4 biggest US companies. I say Republicans because most probably they'll steamroll the Dems in November.

Considering these giants pay very little tax and employ very small numbers in the European tech sector, "there is way" indeed.

They pay so little tax exactly because they’re US behemoths. Again, the EU has a very weak hand in here, it’s not like these decisions are implemented in a vacuum.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#356

Post by frostburg »

judge2020 wrote: post #350
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

Yes. Users will just elect not to do that if they want to benefit from your curation.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#357

Post by webmobdev »

intrasight wrote: post #331
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

>Install any App Store That wasn't one of the bullets in the posted article. Do you have a reference to the language of the law that says this?

I am guessing if you can "install any software" (as the DMA says), then the device manufacturer can't prevent you from installing another app store.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#358

Post by visarga »

judge2020 wrote: post #350
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

The App Store is a garbage dump anyway. There are few apps you can pay upfront, the rest are ad-infested or require you to repeatedly do in app purchases to keep using them, to the point that I can't find games for my kids.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#359

Post by judge2020 »

frostburg wrote: post #356
judge2020 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

Yes. Users will just elect not to do that if they want to benefit from your curation.

The selling point for this theoretical device is that, even if someone steals your passcode, it can’t be hacked. This enabled evil maid (or customs processors, nation-state agencies, etc) attacks on the most vulnerable users looking to have defense-in-depth.

To avoid this it seems you’d either be forced to sell it at an insane markup (to avoid having too many users) or means test people to make sure they don’t purchase it if they’re not super vulnerable to attacks that matter.

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