FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores • Hacker News Board

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#351

Post by atwood22 » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:24 AM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #339

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

"As for me, I'm an American and it is in my best interests that USA stays top dog. I didn't immigrate here to downgrade lol, so I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player." The country or its people? This seems like a very selfish sentiment. Shouldn't we want everyone to prosper, no matter where they are from? There are countless who may not be able to afford to emigrate to the US

Life is largely zero-sum.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#352

Post by zmgsabst » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #339

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

"As for me, I'm an American and it is in my best interests that USA stays top dog. I didn't immigrate here to downgrade lol, so I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player." The country or its people? This seems like a very selfish sentiment. Shouldn't we want everyone to prosper, no matter where they are from? There are countless who may not be able to afford to emigrate to the US

You can want to be the best and want everyone to succeed.

You accidentally revealed your own zero-sum thinking in associating “top player” with putting other people down.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#353

Post by BlargMcLarg » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #341

ChrisLomont wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The USA ranks 26th for median wealth Wealth is also a function of age - older people tend to have more - and that ranking is not normalized by such extraneous factors. The US is number 2 by median income, and number 1 for median disposable income, both of which are pretty important, especially to younger people that want cash flow to enjoy life.

Why would you normalize for age?

Because that wealth isn't useful to individuals who are far away from accessing it, and that access / wealth can still change as they approach the age of access. Additionally, the idea of "start low end high" is being questioned by many individuals who would rather have a more flat curve while starting higher initially.

GP even mentioned the reason in their post.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#354

Post by AustinDev » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

cowtools wrote: post #107

jmfayard wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is a foreign government for 96% of the people, not to mention that its own citizens don't control it much.

The USA is a democracy. Arguing otherwise is the pot calling the kettle black.

No post body was provided.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#355

Post by rapnie » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #339

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

"As for me, I'm an American and it is in my best interests that USA stays top dog. I didn't immigrate here to downgrade lol, so I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player." The country or its people? This seems like a very selfish sentiment. Shouldn't we want everyone to prosper, no matter where they are from? There are countless who may not be able to afford to emigrate to the US

Wonder if GP would also support a repressive regime to remain 'among top dogs' in case democracy were toppled in own country (which is not unthinkable).

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#356

Post by lazyeye » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:27 AM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #337

lazyeye wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive never understood why the concept of reciprocity is so obvious yet never discussed. China blocks your apps, you block theirs. I guess you'd have to be an idiot like Trump to even suggest such a thing.

“The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.”

Lol...taking the high moral ground in this situation is naive in the extreme.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#357

Post by CWuestefeld » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:28 AM UTC

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

It seems to be your idea, that America is prosperous despite freedom, and that we must carefully dole out the freedom lest we lose our edge.

I believe that America was founded on the idea that we could be great because we are free, and that giving our people the opportunity to thrive and be productive will only, in the long run, make our prosperity that much greater.

It's been said that the Constitution is not a suicide pact. You would interpret this, I think, to mean that we should toss out the Bill of Rights anytime it seems inconvenient to our short-term ends. But I see it as a statement that, even when it seems contradictory, investing in the people rather than the power over them will lead to a greater nation even when that seems counterintuitive.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#358

Post by zmgsabst » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:28 AM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #337

lazyeye wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive never understood why the concept of reciprocity is so obvious yet never discussed. China blocks your apps, you block theirs. I guess you'd have to be an idiot like Trump to even suggest such a thing.

“The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.”

Reciprocity is so fundamental to nature that people can’t stop doing it:

Most of the studies about “people are irrational” are times psychologists fail to realize that people are acting on an iterated (rather than single round) game — and enforcing reciprocity through their “irrational” acts.

We know at an instinctive level that reciprocity is necessary in game theory — eg, Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#359

Post by jmyeet » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:30 AM UTC

As much as the US government does questionable and bad things (and it does), the CCP is worse. The US still has at least the semblance of the rule of law. There is still some separation between corporations and the government.

Corporations in China are extensions of the state and tools of foreign policy in a way they just aren't in the West. The US government can also be replaced. That's why China and the US just aren't equivalent here and why something like Tiktok is of greater risk and concern than any US Big Tech app or platform.

Yes, US law enforcement can get access to, say, messages. There's a process for that. Some of it is pretty questionable (eg FISA court, pen registers, NSLs) but at least there's a process. I don't for a second believe that US intelligence has a firehose of everything posted on Twitter and Facebook just because I don't believe the US government has the storage capacity required.

Secondly, China is completely protectionist about access to its market. There are Chinese versions for every app and platform. China uses access to its market as a giant carrot to exact concessions from Western companies but they're chasing a phantom: China will never let any Western company "win" in China.

Part of getting access to China is playing ball with the CCP, which means giving access to data on a whole level above the US government. It means enforcing the Great Firewall and, for example, censoring mention of the Tiannamen Square massacre.

Trade needs to be recipricoal so if China restricts access to the Chinese market, I see no issue with Western countries responding in kind.

The threat model for something like Tiktok is a whole lot worse than any Western equivalent.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#360

Post by viraptor » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 11:30 AM UTC

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #201

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

>As for me, I'm an American and it is in my best interests that USA stays top dog. What do you mean by USA though? It's not a monolithic object and has plenty of rivals too. Also if USA is top dog, it may get freedom to do whatever it wants to you, be careful about what you want. When was the last time absolute power produced good results?

Also, power changes hands over time. As we've seen recently, where suddenly period trackers with any server side storage are an actual liability and an extremely dangerous idea.