Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation • Hacker News Board

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#351

Post by routerl » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 12:57 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #260

routerl wrote: post #192

In the 21st century, in the West, "Buddhism" is treated as a set of stress-relief techniques and slogans. This isn't strictly limited to the West: at least two of Taiwan's Four Great Mountains (i.e. schools of Buddhism) are similarly inclined, with additional cultish elements thrown in for good measure. The cultish elements had already developed independently within corporate cultures, but adding Buddhist slogans and…

"Acting correctly always requires brutality towards oppressors" This directly contradicts a central tenet of Buddhism: ahimsa (or non-violence).

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#352

Post by gumby » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:01 AM UTC

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #344

rawgabbit wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did jumped the gun. The author Carolyn Chen made some very compelling arguments saying corporatized Buddhism is unrecognizable. Carolyn Chen is arguing corporatized Buddhism is a new religion that celebrates 70+hour work weeks and the celebrity CEO. "What we see in American religion, even if it is practiced in a corporate setting, is often the question, “How can the group help the individual realize themselves?” W…

> The author Carolyn Chen made some very compelling arguments saying corporatized Buddhism is unrecognizable. I agree with that. I don’t see the problem though. Why is modifying an idea a bad thing? > Carolyn Chen is arguing corporatized Buddhism is a new religion that celebrates 70+hour work weeks and the celebrity CEO. I agree with this too. I am also left asking, why is this considered bad? To clarify, I don’t ref…

> I am also left asking, why is this considered bad?

Who is saying it's bad? I think you're arguing against a point nobody is making.

I find the most remarkable appropriation of Buddhism to have been the Tibetan, complete with the overthrow of the monarch through an alliance with the Qing and the institution of a theocratic-feudal state (Ganden Phodrang) more like revolutionary Iran than what it re-invented itself into in the 20th century. People seem fine with that; who can complain?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#353

Post by standardUser » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:07 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #347

standardUser wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So yes, undoing Roe returned us to the mainstream." Repeating that just makes you sound like a pedant more concerned with crafting an argument than grappling with the real world situation. In terms of abortion access , the thing actual humans care about, the US just joined the cultural hinterland in denying abortion access to a vast amount of its populace.

And prior to Dobbs the US was part of a small handful of countries that guaranteed the “right” to kill humans that had developed a face, feet, hands, and could suck their thumbs. Abortion law requires balancing individual autonomy against a nascent human life. It’s not an issue where “progress” marches in a single direction. That’s why considering the actual legal effect of Dobbs is critical. We replaced a regime tha…

Many, many nations allow 2nd trimester and late term abortions, though those are always extremely rare and often have complicating circumstances. I don't tend to respect people who use the fringe case to argue the mainstream point as I find it disingenuous.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#354

Post by standardUser » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:11 AM UTC

messe wrote: post #334

standardUser wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that hypothetical makes you happy, sure. But I think most people can easily tell the difference between the widespread colonization that occurred for hundreds of years and whatever historical anomalies you have in mind with that leading question.

> But I think most people can easily tell the difference between the widespread colonization that occurred for hundreds of years and whatever historical anomalies you have in mind with that leading question. I was referring to Ireland, whose colonisation[1][2] during the 16th and 17th centuries served almost as a prototype for future British expansion. Gaelic culture was nearly wiped out due to British policies, and…

No one ever said there wasn't West-on-West subjugation. There's a rich history of that, too. But that is not what we historically consider to be the multi-hundred year era of colonization than killed untold millions and impacted the lives of almost every non-Western person on the planet.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#355

Post by messe » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:21 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #354

messe wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I think most people can easily tell the difference between the widespread colonization that occurred for hundreds of years and whatever historical anomalies you have in mind with that leading question. I was referring to Ireland, whose colonisation[1][2] during the 16th and 17th centuries served almost as a prototype for future British expansion. Gaelic culture was nearly wiped out due to British policies, and…

No one ever said there wasn't West-on-West subjugation. There's a rich history of that, too. But that is not what we historically consider to be the multi-hundred year era of colonization than killed untold millions and impacted the lives of almost every non-Western person on the planet.

I'm sorry, but on what basis, other than geographical location, are you differentiating between the colonization of Ireland and other British colonies?

> But that is not what we historically consider to be the multi-hundred year era of colonization than killed untold millions and impacted the lives of almost every non-Western person on the planet.

Ok. So again, I ask: what's the difference? There was a seizure of lands, systematic eradication of culture and language over the course of several hundred years, mass discrimination, and millions killed in conflicts and famine. What part of that makes it distinct from other instances of colonization?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#356

Post by throwawayacc2 » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:26 AM UTC

NoraCodes wrote: post #348

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But, something has cough my attention. > we are almost certainly speaking from completely different ontological perspectives Do you consider me ontologically evil? Am I, as some people on the internet often refer to those with my sense of mortality, “a demon wearing human flash”?

I'm not sure why you would think that, as it's not what I said at all. Rather, I suspect based on this opinion that I disagree with some things you take as axiomatic, and vice versa, and therefore we have little to learn from arguing with each other.

When you said "ontological" I was reminded of a phrase I often encountered in leftist circles, the assertion some people are "ontologically evil". Precisely because they operate from a different set of axioms.

> therefore we have little to learn from arguing with each other

In a way I agree but at the same time I can't help but think exploring the axioms underlying moral foundations is important. Either to come to a shared set as a society or to construct a societal machanism that will allow people with a contradictory sense of morality to co-exist. To be honest, reaching a shared set of moral axioms seems to be a lost cause to me. But, perhaps the co-existance mechanism is still possible.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#357

Post by throwawayacc2 » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:45 AM UTC

honkdaddy wrote: post #128

goodpoint wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"majority" and "minority" are not about raw numbers but power dynamics in this context. "colonialism" refers to extracting whatever idea or artifact is seen as valuable from a culture or a land without consent and/or without respecting the moral rights of who invented or made it. Additionally, you can read the wikipedia page. (edited for clarity: different people use majority/minority differently depending on the con…

I’ve heard the power dynamics argument before and admittedly it’s never held much weight for me. There are just too many edge cases for a heuristic like that to make any sense, in my mind. So culturally powerless people may extract from culturally powerful people until what point? If a Ukrainian appropriates a part of Russian culture to be their own, who is the victim here? Recently, being Ukrainian has become a much…

> My personal rule is just not to disrespect people and parts of their culture they find important

In the Simbari culture, it is considered important for young boys to be taken away from their families, be beaten and forced to fellate the older members of the tribe.

Does your personal rule of not disrespecting "people and parts of their culture" hold in their case?

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simbari_people

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#358

Post by rrix2 » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:48 AM UTC

mekoka wrote: post #246

routerl wrote: post #192

In the 21st century, in the West, "Buddhism" is treated as a set of stress-relief techniques and slogans. This isn't strictly limited to the West: at least two of Taiwan's Four Great Mountains (i.e. schools of Buddhism) are similarly inclined, with additional cultish elements thrown in for good measure. The cultish elements had already developed independently within corporate cultures, but adding Buddhist slogans and…

A way in is better than no way at all. A friend of mine was concerned about a similar (mis)use of psychedelics in the service of productivity. Except that neither Buddhism, nor psychedelics discriminate in the kind of insights you end up with. So as workers are encouraged to boost creativity through microdosing, employers might be surprised to see some employees quit after they got curious, took a bit too much Ayahua…

> Similarly with mindfulness, first you dip your toes with some guided stuff, organized twice a week by HR. Next thing you know YouTube is suggesting you check out this Osho guy and Thich Nhat Hanh, where you find out you've only been scratching the surface. Then one day you quit your job because it disagree with your conception of right action.

Yep. and five years later i'm working for non-profits making a quarter of what i used to while watching my old friends climb the tech career ladders and buy multiple properties in the bay area. and doing a far stretch better than I was when i got exposed to MBSR.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#359

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:49 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #354

messe wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I think most people can easily tell the difference between the widespread colonization that occurred for hundreds of years and whatever historical anomalies you have in mind with that leading question. I was referring to Ireland, whose colonisation[1][2] during the 16th and 17th centuries served almost as a prototype for future British expansion. Gaelic culture was nearly wiped out due to British policies, and…

No one ever said there wasn't West-on-West subjugation. There's a rich history of that, too. But that is not what we historically consider to be the multi-hundred year era of colonization than killed untold millions and impacted the lives of almost every non-Western person on the planet.

[deleted]

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#360

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #353

rayiner wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And prior to Dobbs the US was part of a small handful of countries that guaranteed the “right” to kill humans that had developed a face, feet, hands, and could suck their thumbs. Abortion law requires balancing individual autonomy against a nascent human life. It’s not an issue where “progress” marches in a single direction. That’s why considering the actual legal effect of Dobbs is critical. We replaced a regime tha…

Many, many nations allow 2nd trimester and late term abortions, though those are always extremely rare and often have complicating circumstances. I don't tend to respect people who use the fringe case to argue the mainstream point as I find it disingenuous.

[deleted]