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Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

reuters.com

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#351

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

voisin wrote: post #347
dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How long before the public realizes that we are not Rogers' customers, but its hostages? Won't happen. The average Canadians are one of the most sheep like docile people out there.

What actionable steps can Canadians take?

Well, elect politicians who encourage free markets, and have the least govt in our personal life as much as possible. Easier said than done. Canadians (like most other people) are too stupid to gauge what policies/politicians are good for them.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#352

Post by ryanbrunner »

kelseydh wrote: post #276
ryanbrunner wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have national and provincial parks, Crown land is different. A national park is maintained for visitors and for nature, crown land is closer to unused or unclaimed land, generally nothing is done with it unless it's sold off. You are free to camp on crown land, but it's nothing like going to a park, it's full on wilderness camping with no amenities, sites, or anything else.

My point is, Canadians think of government land philosophically as something that is not theirs, but rather, owned by the crown -- the Queen. While Americans see public land as their shared land. This mentality penetrates into many of the differences between the two countries in how they govern.

"Crown" (or "Royal", "Regina", etc.) is used pretty extensively in the Canadian governmental or legal system, and any association in Canadian's minds with the Monarch are pretty much nil.

If you talked about "crown corporations", or "Regina vs." (for criminal cases) no one would associate that with Elizabeth II. "Crown" and anything like that basically just means government.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#353

Post by kejaed »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #188

Would Starlink work in Canada during an outage like this if the base stations don’t have internet?

Starlink worked throughout the Rogers network issues for those I know using it in Canada.

From what I understand of their current network setup, if their base stations in a region had no connectivity then the starlink customers in that region would lose their connectivity too.

This is likely going to be able to be mitigated when Starlink inter-satellite communications is up and running and they can route packets in space.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#354

Post by zinekeller »

dekimir wrote: post #341
yardstick wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s an attack. I’m in Canada at the moment with my UK SIM and using Rogers internet just fine. Completely unaware of any problems until my friends warned me about needing cash and I then double checked and still, phone internet via Rogers on a roaming SIM worked fine. My guess is their voice, sms etc all are IP these days which was impacted by their BGP issues. Whereas my UK carrier roaming gives me a…

> My guess is their voice, sms etc all are IP these days which was impacted by their BGP issues. Impacted, yes. But "no service"? That's dubious. I hear you on foreign SIM working. I got online at a cafe just long enough to buy a Yessim eSIM. When I activated it and turned on data roaming, I had LTE working on... the Rogers network! That I didn't expect.

> Impacted, yes. But "no service"? That's dubious.

Nope, in contrary I will fully believe it. Circuit-switched networks are dead, period. Most "circuit-switched" networks are actually IP networks just with custom FEC'd and prioritised protocols so that there's backwards compatibility. Most Subscriber Authentication systems since UMTS and 3G CDMA (except for super-early deployments, and since they have LTE they would have migrated it if it were the case) have moved into an IP-based system because it's cheaper, and if that's down then everything is down.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#355

Post by Alupis »

skipants wrote: post #164
UkrainianJew wrote: post #121

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to?

ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers.

It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business.

Matching and lowering prices is good for everyone. The new player running out of money and going out of business is really just a lack of foresight and planning on their part. It's pretty absurd to not expect the incumbents to reduce pricing when they are directly completed against.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#356

Post by Gare »

Alupis wrote: post #355
skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to? ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. Matching and lowering prices is good for everyone. The…

> t's pretty absurd to not expect the incumbents to reduce pricing when they are directly completed against.

But they should be forced to reduce it everywhere where they're offering similar service, not just a limited local area.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#357

Post by amirkdv »

Alupis wrote: post #355
skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to? ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. Matching and lowering prices is good for everyone. The…

> forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers.

Excpet they revert back to old prices once the competition is dead. This is textbook predatory pricing.

> It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business.

What's the significance of "absurdly below cost" here? They are doing exactly what you describe except the exact number here is not 1 but 50.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#358

Post by richbell »

Alupis wrote: post #355
skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to? ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers. It's not like Bell, in this case, were offering 1Gbps for something absurdly below cost, like $1/mo or something just to drive the new comer out of business. Matching and lowering prices is good for everyone. The…

> Is this not just competition working the way it's supposed to? > > ie, another player shows up in the market, offers a more attractive price and forces the other players to reduce their prices or shed customers.

No, because any time a company shows up that could pose an actual challenge to their stranglehold, all 3 companies gang up and lobby against them.

E.g.

https://globalnews.ca/news/753408/new-ad-against-verizon-exp...

https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/carriers/rogers-telus-bell-job...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#359

Post by noelherrick »

jeromegv wrote: post #268
ehsankia wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any of the big cities ever considered its own municipal internet? I would vote for any politician that has that as a platform immediately.

City of Toronto has done some work on it but the mayor of Toronto is also on some Rogers board with a pay for $100k a year

My jaw literally dropped. I cannot believe this level of corruption. Goodness gracious.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#360

Post by goosedragons »

amscanne wrote: post #224
wvenable wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile providers have to make huge investments in infrastructure to provide reasonable coverage in Canada. It happens on a small scale but it's like an entirely different market from the main players. Now I have little doubt that if foreign providers were allowed in Canada that Verizon or AT&T would be able to setup reasonable competition in short order.

This happened: Wind Mobile. They couldn't immediately build infrastructure across the entire country, so IIRC you were "roaming" outside a few major urban centers. However, I believe they also had unlimited US roaming (much better than the big three). I expected more uptake since it would have been a better deal for most Canadians in those urban centers, but I think there's a subtle bias against taking these kinds of…

They never really expanded close to enough. People didn't want to be roaming when they went to the cottage or camping or whatever and even then the urban areas served were still too concentrated and small.

I think had they focused on southern Ontario or BC and expanded from there rather than aiming to hit the all the big metros first they might have done better.

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