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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#351

This wouldn't happen if Apple decided to cut their Apple tax to 15% or something. They already knew that this 30% is not sustainable. 15% would be still considerably higher than usual payment processors' but something justifiable given their massive investment into the platform. But instead of taking this path, Apple decided to exploit this 30% tax for competition against other service providers. This is obviously un…

It’s very likely this would have happened even if Apple would have cut it to 15%. There’s still about 12% on the table, and the rest of the gate keeping issues would still be there.

History is full of precedents where a powerful party gave some of its power only to have it not stop and even accelerate the attacks against it.

Apple could not stay the biggest company in the world without attracting attention such as this. One of those has to give.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#352

This wouldn't happen if Apple decided to cut their Apple tax to 15% or something. They already knew that this 30% is not sustainable. 15% would be still considerably higher than usual payment processors' but something justifiable given their massive investment into the platform. But instead of taking this path, Apple decided to exploit this 30% tax for competition against other service providers. This is obviously un…

Apple probably gambled on keeping it at 30% everywhere other than Europe would still be worthwhile.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#353
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? They just want to be the gatekeeper for lucrative applications/functions so they can charge for it. That they somehow convinced apple users that it's somehow in their interest just shows how good their marketing is.

Apple makes peanuts from the App Store relative to phone sales. After they upped the cut for developers to between 70% and 85% and CC companies still get their cut, add customer service and app reviews and it simply isn’t that profitable. What they benefit from is selling 1,000$ phones at a 30+% profit margin, because for the average consumer they simply work better. Which actually aligns incentives between customers…

A quick Google suggests Apple made 64 billion from the App Store in 2021 of the 378 billion in total revenue.

Some fairly large peanuts!

And that revenue is basically pure profit as it doesn’t require the creation of any actual physical hardware either.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#354

Maybe fines like this could fund UBI? Society could vote on a number of measures designed to create a sustainable economy. For example, instead of carbon tax credits, we could just set a ceiling on carbon emissions and let companies pay the fine, then send direct payments to everyone. Or set a living wage of $20/hr and make companies directly responsible for paying the shortfall that the government makes up in welfar…

> Maybe fines like this could fund UBI?

What? Are you counting on steady fines to provide basic life support?

If that's not bizarre enough: how much do you think UBI (in the EU) would cost? There are 450M people in the EU. Giving the adults around €20k per year would require €7200B.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#355

This wouldn't happen if Apple decided to cut their Apple tax to 15% or something. They already knew that this 30% is not sustainable. 15% would be still considerably higher than usual payment processors' but something justifiable given their massive investment into the platform. But instead of taking this path, Apple decided to exploit this 30% tax for competition against other service providers. This is obviously un…

>This wouldn't happen if Apple decided to cut their Apple tax to 15% or something.

Still wouldn't allow people to install Firefox.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#356
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a PS5 cost that much? Has there ever been a console where, over the life of the console, the hardware was sold for a loss?

> Has there ever been a console where, over the life of the console, the hardware was sold for a loss? All of them. Speaking about PS5 specifically: there's quite a few advancements in there that you're not thinking about, the kraken decompressor that can run at native NVME speed in hardware and load assets directly into video memory has no PC equivalent. Though PC vendors are trying to do NVME GPUMem these days, it…

> All of them.

It’s my understanding that’s not (always?) true for Nintendo consoles. The Switch makes a profit on hardware[1] and that was a goal before launch[2].

[1]: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/79180/xboxes-arent-profitable...

[2]: https://venturebeat.com/2016/10/26/nintendo-wont-sell-switch...

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First there is way more money to be made on iOS users and secondly sometimes you wait to strike until you can knock down all the pins, not just half. iOS users do spend more money on App Store purchases than Android. But if Meta's whole intention to build a 3rd party App Store is to mine them for data, why didn't they try that on Android- shouldn't the data of Android users be just as good, especially when they hav…

> Why would iOS users' data be more lucrative? Spending money on the App Store is orthogonal to having more desirable data to sell. This just isn't true. The data of people who have more money to spend is more attractive than that of those who do not. Also having more money to spend means that data can be used for targeted advertising or just knowing what people with money are interested in and where to focus efforts…

> This just isn't true. The data of people who have more money to spend is more attractive than that of those who do not. Also having more money to spend means that data can be used for targeted advertising or just knowing what people with money are interested in and where to focus efforts.

Still, Android has a far larger user base than iOS, and if this third party app store data funnel scheme was such a great idea, you'd think they would have tried it out there at least.

To date, Facebook's only attempts to branch off on mobile have been the Facebook Home Android UI/lock screen, and maybe the HTC First. Both don't really inspire confidence in future efforts, but sure, it's been a decade. Would you put money on modern FB being better at launching new successful products that consumers want, compared to FB ten years ago?

> I don't get the impression that there is a large number of people on FB saying "If they step over the line 1 more time I'm leaving", at this point it's people who just don't care.

It's more like, "If they ask me to sign up and manage yet another user account with payment methods and privacy settings and more notifications to worry about, I'm not going to bother and I'll use the mobile website." Or, "I don't even use Facebook much anymore, I'll just use it on desktop or not at all."

> They can even make a big hullabaloo about "This lets us get fixes and features out to you faster and lets you easily opt into our beta channel".

And users, even those who don't know or care about privacy, would be annoyed because this is another hoop they have to jump through, in the modern era where there are multitudes of social media networks, streaming platforms, and so forth to worry about. Many won't bother to sign up for yet another app store, and that will undercut Facebook's own user base.

You really need to get past this core problem of user burnout. Everything is fragmented across services these days. Perhaps there might even be a startup idea in it for easy account management/signup a la 1Password. I guess Sign In with Apple helps with this a little.

> Their bad behavior is clearly visible, I'm completely unclear as to what the EU doesn't seem to care. They seem to be laser focused on mobile to the determinant of desktop and consoles.

All in due time. Who says they don't care? Perhaps you should cast a wider net for news articles.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-targeted-fresh-eu-...

https://internationalbanker.com/technology/eu-antitrust-legi...

> MS had devices/OS that no one wanted,

People didn't want their OS because they couldn't secure the apps the people wanted. Which will also be an issue for these 3rd party app stores, as people can just go to the official store, or you deal with mutually assured destruction scenarios (see below).

> RIM was late to the game and had their lunch eaten by that point.

Fair, but couldn't you say the same about Meta/Google iOS stores?

> As for Amazon/Samsung they capture a lot of a value by making themselves the default but more importantly, all of these examples are platform providers, not app developers (at their root). Meaning, they make their money by taking a cut, not by selling apps themselves or even through ads in apps (maybe ads in their store).

I'm almost certain that Amazon just has it as a means to sell the content (eBooks, music, movies) that they host, and Samsung just packages as bloatware as it their wont. They don't actually invest in their Android 3rd party stores because there's no compelling reason to use them instead of the Play Store.

> The calculus changes for someone like FB, EA, EPIC, etc, especially for less savory app creators who don't care about privacy.

App creators are going to publish to multiple app stores to get the largest user base, though sure, as with game consoles, perhaps the ones running different stores might cut them exclusivity deals. Epic does want its own app store to get past the 30% cut, but I'm wondering if them or EA even has enough iOS games signed up with them for them to pursue the creation of yet another Origin store that gamers hate. I can't imagine the bulk of EA-affiliated mobile games being anything but tie-in material, not exactly Fortnite. Maybe they'll expand their mobile division, who knows. Ultimately, Apple Arcade is hard to beat.

> I'm not saying that FB will create a store and become the number 1 app store, but that they will release their apps via their own store (with it's own rules, or lack thereof) and users will be forced/tricked/incentivized into using it.

And that's the crux of it: I'm saying that's an act of MAD, because while the Apple App Store then loses their apps, it means Meta loses all of the customers who aren't going to bother to transition or just switch to mobile web, which is assuredly a non-zero number. Unless they can somehow make it a 100% seamless transition to create and manage yet another user account, it's going to be a hurdle for adoption. Especially if they're not offering anything other than their current apps- that's not enough to entice users to join, if anything that's a negative user experience, Meta is making it harder to use their existing products.

And Google taking G-Suite or other crucial apps off the official App Store? Forget about it, that sounds like prime antitrust fodder for the regulators.

Ultimately, these large corporations tend to run into difficulties playing in each other's sandboxes. Facebook/Google launching third party app stores would be far from a surefire success.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was I dreaming or was there a $700 billion US banking sector bailout in 2008?

That's a poor comparison both since banks always work a bit differently and since the US Gov made back their money on the bailout.

Indeed. Bailouts were loans, not free money. The US government made money on those loans due to interest.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full devils advocate here, but the argument I've always heard is that the play store is a lot less arbitrary and restrictive than the App Store, so there's less reason to want to go outside of it. Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software that there actually may be enough momentum for real alternate app stores to proliferate.

Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software For someone who doesn't have a personal Android phone, what useful software is out there that I can get on an iPhone? Related: What mass-market software is out there that isn't available on the iPhone? I don't mean *nix tools and niche game emulators. Things that would make many people actually care about alt stores?

In addition to everything the others mentioned already, anything that's not a web browser that might at some point show NSFW content. Applications like Discord and Tumblr been forced to make ux-degrading changes to comply with this Victorian-era prudishness.

(and before you mention an application you know of that doesn't have this problem, remember that Apple's enforcement and reading of the rules compares unfavorably with nuclear particle decay)

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a poor comparison both since banks always work a bit differently and since the US Gov made back their money on the bailout.

Indeed. Bailouts were loans, not free money. The US government made money on those loans due to interest.

That's a nice comforting story to believe in. I hope for you it's true. Over here the bailouts were a massive transfer of public to private wealth that led to a decade of "austerity", closed hospitals, collapsed pension schemes and general misery for the poorest people in society.
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