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Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

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Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#351

Post by caconym_ »

carrionpigeon wrote: post #332
caconym_ wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe a) I assume you're talking about the past, and not the future. b) The issue is less that our laws are restrictive , and more that they're written in a capricious, illogical, incomplete, and ignorant way. What do you think is going to happen to people with emergency reproductive conditions (e.g. late stage ectopic pregnancies) when doctors h…

I removed my original reply upon realization the poster to whom I responded was likely too angry for debate given the tone of the parent post, which I re-read after sending mine. Perhaps the news is too recent and more time is needed for conversation, I thought. It seems that I was entirely correct... Below is my reply, which I am re-writing for context, and I will have to encroach on everyone's trust that what I wri…

> I removed my original reply upon realization the poster to whom I responded was likely too angry for debate

Strong arguments don't lead with transparent emotional projection. If it's important to you to imagine that I am "likely too angry for debate", you are likely already rationalizing an indefensible position you are attached to for whatever reason. Better to abandon it.

Sifting through the largely irrelevant (in the sense of the immediate context of this thread) mountain of words you've dumped here, it seems that the best you can do wrt. the actual substance of my original comment is that women will first have to die to generate "outrage" that will then somehow cause laws to change, to which I think my originally drafted reply suits just fine. Apologia for policy that will kill people is astonishing; it is disgusting; and it is what precisely you are engaging in here.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#352

Post by hericium »

unmole wrote: post #118
hericium wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pulled out (...) to avoid reputational damage to their brands. French retailer Auchan did not move out of Russia and I have some friends who stopped shopping there and are quite vocal about how noone should shop there.

Because the company decided that the risk of reputational damage was smaller than the value of their Russian operations? The fact that they decided to stay put doesn't mean they support the invasion. Don't anthropomorphize corporations.

> The fact that they decided to stay put doesn't mean they support the invasion.

How about with taxes paid there?

German chancelor Olaf Scholz halted $10b Nord Stream 2 project and plans to stop fossils import from Russia to cut cash flow to Putin's regime. Other repercussions' goal is similar: to stop indirectly funding Putin's invasion.

Everyone paying Russia could just "stay put" but this wouldn't be inaction.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#353

Post by ashwoods »

unmole wrote: post #118
hericium wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pulled out (...) to avoid reputational damage to their brands. French retailer Auchan did not move out of Russia and I have some friends who stopped shopping there and are quite vocal about how noone should shop there.

Because the company decided that the risk of reputational damage was smaller than the value of their Russian operations? The fact that they decided to stay put doesn't mean they support the invasion. Don't anthropomorphize corporations.

Calling out anthropomorphization of corporations when related to morality or politics while attributing rationality or self-interest is a contradiction.

Corporations have no self-interest or do not think. Corporations are human artifacts composed of human beings that have specific rules applied to them in the great game in our societies, and tend to behave accordingly. This behavior have patterns that we as humans recognize unsurprisingly as human, because they are composed by humans. A corporation is a as rational as a group of humans can be.

Corporations do not always "act" in their self interest, and we can (and in my opinion should) expect moral obligations from them as we do with humans.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#354

Post by thiht »

alfor wrote: post #289
JKCalhoun wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting we put a limit on the number of abortions someone can have? Maybe you think one is okay, but that's it. If a woman's life is in danger from the pregnancy, how does that figure into your calculus?

It’s a tiny part of abortions. Mostly abortion is contraception after the fact, I think this part is morally wrong, a bit like killing a baby.

You’re right to put emphasis on this: « you think ». I don’t.

You can wave your « killing babies » to try to prove your point all you want, it won’t work, because fetuses aren’t babies.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#355

Post by BrandoElFollito »

silisili wrote: post #274
anon9001 wrote: post #130

This is the n'th tech company today that's made an announcement similar to this. Even Disney is going to transport workers to abortion-legal states as needed as "health benefit". It's certainly a perk and good on Google for this one, but we're headed to a dark place if your best shot at human rights is to retain employment by a big tech company.

One side of me applauds companies who truly do things they believe are right. The jaded side of me wonders if some amount of companies figured it'd be cheaper to pay for an abortion than maternity leave and health insurance.

I do not understand this comment (I am French, this may be a cultural/political thing)

Duo you mean that women who undergo abortion wild not do that if they had access to healthcare and maternity leave?

We have access to both and still have abortions. About 220k per year, which is about 30% of all pregnancies.

Either we have a dumb population that did not know what contraception is (we have sex ed all the time), or there are deeper reasons for this action which is never fun for a woman.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#356

Post by npteljes »

silisili wrote: post #274
anon9001 wrote: post #130

This is the n'th tech company today that's made an announcement similar to this. Even Disney is going to transport workers to abortion-legal states as needed as "health benefit". It's certainly a perk and good on Google for this one, but we're headed to a dark place if your best shot at human rights is to retain employment by a big tech company.

One side of me applauds companies who truly do things they believe are right. The jaded side of me wonders if some amount of companies figured it'd be cheaper to pay for an abortion than maternity leave and health insurance.

It's certainly a good time for the company to step in, and look good, while not sacrificing much.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#357

Post by npteljes »

grapeskin wrote: post #27
JKCalhoun wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, Apple should be dialing down investment in Texas.

It's odd how many corporations have policies to help their employees escape the laws of places like Texas and Florida, but they're more than happy to relocate their offices to those states for small tax reductions. If they're truly against these policies, gutting those states of thousands of high earning jobs and refusing to build any new offices is the most effective way to do it. The Russian sanctions actually surp…

Odd? I think it just makes business sense.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#359

Post by silisili »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #355
silisili wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One side of me applauds companies who truly do things they believe are right. The jaded side of me wonders if some amount of companies figured it'd be cheaper to pay for an abortion than maternity leave and health insurance.

I do not understand this comment (I am French, this may be a cultural/political thing) Duo you mean that women who undergo abortion wild not do that if they had access to healthcare and maternity leave? We have access to both and still have abortions. About 220k per year, which is about 30% of all pregnancies. Either we have a dumb population that did not know what contraception is (we have sex ed all the time), or t…

In the US, typically employers pay for most or all of your family's health insurance. Yes, it's absurd. Losing your job means losing your insurance.

US also has laws requiring up to 3 months of leave for having children.

So, if you have a child, the company must accept or pay for your leave, depending on policy, and their health insurance costs for you go up.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#360

Post by silisili »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #341
silisili wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One side of me applauds companies who truly do things they believe are right. The jaded side of me wonders if some amount of companies figured it'd be cheaper to pay for an abortion than maternity leave and health insurance.

That might be overly jaded. I think an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy is a loss for everyone involved, so it's a bit of a no-brainer for companies to offer this relocation.

I want to agree with you, and hope you're correct...but remember the job of actuaries and how they've worked in the past which is honestly rather depressing.

Specifically, Ford realizing it was cheaper to pay for crash lawsuits than making everyone's car safer in the days of rear end gas tanks.

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