Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt • Hacker News Board

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#351

Post by 1111567893 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:29 AM UTC

maxwell wrote: post #65

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless you want to delete the philibuster, that's a long way from the 60 votes you need.

I'm not talking about passing anything, just taking down a vote of who is actually for and against Medicare for All.

The problem is, the democrats have done a lot of these symbolic votes, on issues that majorities (55% or more) of the public support. They take down the vote, and the public doesn't notice.

Even with public support for their ideas, they are losing the messaging war against the other party. Most voters don't pay attention to candidates' voting records, and barring the unforseen the Republicans appear poised for a major victory in the House, with the senate in play as well. We are in for some bad times ahead.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#352

Post by meowtimemania » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:30 AM UTC

soco wrote: post #241

nimbius wrote: post #97

not that it honestly matters. the whole cabal of private healthcare has become such a teetering house of cards post covid that credit reporting agencies no longer count medical debt in your score. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/medical-debt...

I will just chip in to point out the obvious: the US healthcare is the teetering house of cards etc etc etc. Many other countries managed this just fine, so the question is, why not also in the US? Follow the money: who gains out of this chaos?

I’m not very educated on this topic. Who is gaining out of the chaos?

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#353

Post by 1111567893 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:37 AM UTC

Bostonian wrote: post #2

Defining the problem so broadly makes it less likely that it will be solved. We already have high inflation in part because of high government transfers during the pandemic, and handing out money to 100M people with medical debt or student loan debt would aggravate this.

And letting people starve or die would have been better than inflation?

I don't understand that point of view. It seems pretty cold to me.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#354

Post by evgen » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 8:41 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #333

buffington wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to understand what point you're trying to make here. Are you saying America's system is better or worse than that of your country? I'm in America, and I have fantastic health insurance (by American standards) and waited over a year for a hip replacement surgery. Even with insurance, I paid almost $10,000 for the surgery. Without insurance it would have cost well over $100k. I suspect that in any other coun…

Why do you assume you would have gotten authorized for a hip replacement at all? Many elective qualify of life surgeries aren’t covered in European health care systems. Look, there is no free lunch. The UK NHS has strict standards of “cost effectiveness” that would shock Americans: https://www.nice.org.uk/media/default/guidance/lgb10-briefin... . 20-30,000 pounds per quality adjusted life year. American end of life c…

Sure, and I will say the ugly truth:

She might have been better off in hospice (end of life care can be rather grim and there is a reason many older Americans are terrified of the process and results) and society in general would have been better off if she died sooner in hospice care.

The European system is much better because it does not hide reality from people who seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that they, and the people they cherish, are eventually going to die. Instead of giving one old lady and additional 18 months of end of life care the Euro system has the ability to make sure that basic health needs of the entire population are actually taken care of, something at which the American system fails completely. An approach based on cost effective treatment is easy to attack using cherry-picked sob stories, but overall it is a far superior system to the 'you only get what you can pay for' American approach.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#355

Post by bergenty » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 8:52 AM UTC

meowtimemania wrote: post #352

soco wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will just chip in to point out the obvious: the US healthcare is the teetering house of cards etc etc etc. Many other countries managed this just fine, so the question is, why not also in the US? Follow the money: who gains out of this chaos?

I’m not very educated on this topic. Who is gaining out of the chaos?

Insurance companies. Unneeded middle men.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#356

Post by mola » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 9:13 AM UTC

colpabar wrote: post #182

yalogin wrote: post #161

None of these metrics will change the political stance our one majority party took. They have shut their eyes and ears and are hell bent on preserving the interests of the lobbying companies and fetishizing “free market competition”. I can bet a sizeable amount of money that nothing will change in the next 50yrs even. Today there is still a rule that a hospital cannot say no to a patient, I strongly believe that is o…

I make this comment in a lot of threads, but if democrats wanted to fix this problem, they would write legislation for it and try to get it passed. Instead, all we get (from both parties) are massive 1000+ page bills that include a bunch of completely unrelated stuff. Why haven't democrats produce a 10 page bill with a tl;dr of "medical debt is hereby abolished"? Stop pretending the clowns pretending to be politician…

You got some short memory, republicans fought tooth and nail against Obama and made an effort to have the worst possible legislation passed so they could prove universal healthcare cannot succeed.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#357

Post by zikduruqe » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 10:56 AM UTC

egberts1 wrote: post #223

starik36 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the bankruptcy stick around on the credit report for 7 years?

Yep but if you add a note for the reason of bankruptcy into your credit application, the credit provider would still take that into consideration and STILL charge you a higher interest rate. Depending on the absolved medical debt (being discharged by your bankruptcy), and its would-be crushing monthly payments, the higher interest rate of your new (mortgage/credit) credit lines and its monthly payments are often less…

> STILL charge you a higher interest rate.

My mortgage is 2.25% and the car we financed was 0%.

The saddest part was with each creditor that asked about the bankruptcy and we explained it was due to medical debt, they would just say something like "oh no problem, get those all the time" or "bad things happened to good people", like it was no issue.

It was like, having crushing medical debt is normal, for people.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#358

Post by SigmundA » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 12:00 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #342

SigmundA wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is forcing you to pay at gunpoint, you are free to leave at any time and no longer pay. Paying taxes is no different than mortgage or rent, either pay it or get out. You don't fully own the property you live on even if it's paid off, it is the soil of the country you live in, if you want your own soil fight for your own sovereign territory and keep it through force without any help, good luck.

>Nobody is forcing you to pay at gunpoint, you are free to leave at any time and no longer pay. OK so if a robber comes to my house and says pay up or leave, then that's not a forceful action at gunpoint? >you are free to leave at any time and no longer pay. That's not how it works -- allow me to inform you of tax law in the US. US Citizens are responsible for filing, and possibly paying taxes on income earned ANYWHE…

>OK so if a robber comes to my house and says pay up or leave, then that's not a forceful action at gunpoint?

They are not a robber they are a landlord, you are on their land, pay taxes or leave your choice. They are not forcing you to stay and work and pay taxes at gunpoint, you have the choice to leave. However while you are there you must fund the services they are currently providing to you, if you willfully evade that payment then you are committing a crime, but you have the option not to, you always have choice.

>That's not how it works -- allow me to inform you of tax law in the US. US Citizens are responsible for filing, and possibly paying taxes on income earned ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

Most standard income is covered under FEIE and FTC, that is you won't pay taxes twice if your paying taxes in another country utilizing their social service instead and if you have been truly living in working for almost a full year you pay no tax on the income.

Note since you are US citizen you still benefit from their social service while living abroad, the are many protections upheld to US citizens traveling abroad you would no longer have if you renounce.

>Now you could renounce citizenship, but even then that wouldn't satisfy your condition of "no longer pay" because you even have to pay over $2000 just to renounce citizenship, and that has to be done outside of the US.

Exactly, you must pay your final rent payment and get out, no one is forcing you to stay. If you don't have the money to pay then you are not making income to pay taxes either.

>When I pay rent/mortgage it's for my own use of property in a private contract, in a voluntary exchange. Tax is an involuntary transaction. A very different thing.

You have agreed to the social contract [1], you are voluntarily staying in the country and utilizing the social services and resources (military and police protection, roads, public spaces etc.) to make money and live safely and productively. No one is forcing you to stay, there are places in this world that do not tax you for police and schools.

>You start off saying nobody is forcing this at gunpoint but then you go on to challenge me to "keep it through force."

That's the point, the reason you don't have to defend your property and life through force on a daily basis is because you have voluntarily agreed to live in a country that has the monopoly on violence [2] and in exchange for the social service of military and police protection you must pay taxes if you profit from that protection.

People are social animals, they work together to solve problems no individual could on their own, money facilitates this and is needed to fund the large social framework you live under hence taxes. If government disappeared tomorrow, it's would be reformed quickly in not so pleasant ways. You may not like it but that doesn't matter because others will form large groups and impose it on you regardless and you will have no choice over its form.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#359

Post by kcplate » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #348

kcplate wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted, this seems factual. I’ll make a guess at why. Because some folks in the US who want universal healthcare have a misunderstanding of what that actually means to make it affordable. Any comment criticizing or expressing what might be perceived as negative of any aspect of “European style healthcare” (as if that is a singular thing) will get downvoted by these folks. They have…

why can't the 89-year old grandmother get supplemental insurance that covers the fancy therapies? I don't buy that there's no way to get people state-covered insulin and chemo without consigning everyone to bread lines. just make Medicare universal, and let people buy BCBS or Kaiser etc. on top, to skip the lines or cover more end of life stuff.

Not saying that she can’t, but I am saying that the expectation of universal healthcare from many of the folks supporting it is that she won’t have to buy supplemental coverage, but will get the same or better care.

Re: Sick and struggling to pay, 100M people in the U.S. live with medical debt

#360

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #266

paxys wrote: post #203

America has socialized healthcare with a hundred extra steps and implemented in the most inefficient way possible so that everyone comes out worse. Hospitals aren't allowed to deny care (obviously). They will bill people outrageous amounts and know that they will only ever see a fraction of it. So prices for people who do pay are raised considerably to make up for it. People don't get early preventive care due to cos…

The primary limit on the supply of doctors right now is lack of federal (Medicare) funding for residency training slots. Every year, students graduate from accredited medical schools but are never able to practice medicine because they can't get matched to residency program. This also impacts foreign doctors who want to immigrate and practice here. Ask Congress to increase funding. https://savegme.org/

A trillion dollar industry doesn't necessarily have to depend on the federal government to fund training.