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Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

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Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#351

Post by Suzuran »

dlandis wrote: post #234
reggieband wrote: post #137

When I first started programming I was pretty lucky to get a job at a games company. My first lead was a veteran who had shipped a lot of AAA titles and he loved his war stories. He was personally interested in performance and he would often cite hardware timings for specific cpu instructions. One story he told a couple of times was about some grey beard who was before his time. The grey beard was once a legend in th…

> But to me, they are like the old grey beard who didn't update his knowledge as the times changed. Maybe it's just me but with all the rampant age discrimination nowadays in tech, I really don't like to see the continued propagation of this stereotype. All sorts of people of all ages are unwilling or unable to update their knowledge of new tech, there is no reason to link this characteristic to someones advanced age…

I have found the opposite of the stereotype to be true; I feel I've learned more in the last 5 years or so than I have the previous 30 because I now have the experience to contextualize and sort it all, the discipline to stay focused and active when Real Life doesn't want to let me, and access to resources that would have cost an unreasonable sum even 10 years ago.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#352

Post by wvenable »

ratww wrote: post #306
wvenable wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, you normally abstract these things with a helper fn or two, without importing the whole jQuery anyway. Add enough helper functions are you're at jQuery anyway. Looking at the jQuery source code, it manages a lot of edge cases that I don't really have time to figure out on my own. The DOM API isn't really designed that well for human consumption. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Node/nodeTy..…

> Add enough helper functions are you're at jQuery anyway. I really hate these exaggerations. jQuery is, last I checked, over 200k unminified. Anyone writing enough helper functions to get to a fraction of that is already a pathological case.

Browsing the source of jQuery and I don't find it bloated but I find a lot of knowledge in there that a naive user the DOM API would most likely know about.

It's kind of like how you can comparing languages using simple example code isn't relevant because proper code with full error handling and edge case handling can be very different from a naive example.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#353

Post by lanstin »

vkou wrote: post #297
namdnay wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see a lot of age discrimination it tech? What I have seen is awkward situations where you have two developers of roughly equal competence. One happens to be 45 and the other 28. Fine, nobody would care about that. Except that due to automatic annual raises, job switches, seniority bumps etc, the 45 year old developer is paid twice as much as the junior. The rational response to this would be to say to align th…

If the 45-year old developer has been with the firm for 15 years, they may have roughly equal competence in writing code, but unless they spent the past decade with their eyes and ears closed, the 45-year old should have vastly more institutional knowledge. Seniority bumps, x-weeks-vacation-after-y-years-of-service reward that intangible.

Tho institutional knowledge can cut both ways - being indignant rather than resigned about the problems, and trying to fix things without knowing why all the prior attempts failed, and even being friendly to people that are politically outcast, are all great. Even just bringing novel solutions from outside industries or organizations to bear on problems is useful (tho experience is also a common cause for having a variety of solutions in ones tool box).

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#354

Post by megous »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #335
megous wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating an array, populating it with however many elements just to be able to call some methods and destroying it immediately afterwards. And doing it all over the app, just because it's syntactically convenient. (all while you already have an iterable collection in the form of NodeList)

It is a bit weird to consume an iterator into an array when a NodeList is already iterable. Not sure why it caught on.

I see it a lot with other iterables, too. People may like one liners and functional style more than a procedural `for (of)` construct, so they use `[...iterable].any_array_function(...)` everywhere, except when foced not to by async code :).

Might also have something to do with Redux and immutable patterns. (the use of spread operator in general)

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#355

Post by sunjester »

dlandis wrote: post #234
reggieband wrote: post #137

When I first started programming I was pretty lucky to get a job at a games company. My first lead was a veteran who had shipped a lot of AAA titles and he loved his war stories. He was personally interested in performance and he would often cite hardware timings for specific cpu instructions. One story he told a couple of times was about some grey beard who was before his time. The grey beard was once a legend in th…

> But to me, they are like the old grey beard who didn't update his knowledge as the times changed. Maybe it's just me but with all the rampant age discrimination nowadays in tech, I really don't like to see the continued propagation of this stereotype. All sorts of people of all ages are unwilling or unable to update their knowledge of new tech, there is no reason to link this characteristic to someones advanced age…

You have offended me.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#356

Post by avar »

capableweb wrote: post #277
squiffsquiff wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why describe him as a "greybeard" then? It are you claiming to have met many younger and/or female 'greybeards'? If your answer is that 'it's just part of the story'. Well that's precisely the complaint.

The meaning of "greybeard" have moved from being literally, to current be figuratively. It doesn't mean that the person is A) old, B) man C) have a beard and D) that the beard is grey. It simply means someone experienced/being at something for a long time. The greybeards at a company can be all women of the age 26, but if they been with the company for 5 years when the company got started 5 years ago, they are the gr…

"veteran", from latin "vetus" meaning "old" :)

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#357

Post by darepublic »

reggieband wrote: post #137

When I first started programming I was pretty lucky to get a job at a games company. My first lead was a veteran who had shipped a lot of AAA titles and he loved his war stories. He was personally interested in performance and he would often cite hardware timings for specific cpu instructions. One story he told a couple of times was about some grey beard who was before his time. The grey beard was once a legend in th…

Jquery devs prob don't deserve as much credit as your old greybeard. And jquery was moreso used for browser compatibility and ease of use than performance or so I recall. On the topic of performance in web frameworks I often have to hear people tell me react is faster than plain vanilla Js. I used to argue the point but now I just smile and nod. Maybe the world has gone mad or maybe I'm the one out of touch

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#358

Post by justbaker »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #339
squiffsquiff wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why describe him as a "greybeard" then? It are you claiming to have met many younger and/or female 'greybeards'? If your answer is that 'it's just part of the story'. Well that's precisely the complaint.

It's 2022. Men can get pregnant and women can have a beard. Greybeards is an inclusive term and it's a well known term.

I hope your username is accurate.

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#359

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

atoav wrote: post #226
DeathArrow wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather not write 10 lines of Vanilla JS when I can write a line using jQuery. And I do prefer jQuery-style syntax for manipulating the DOM.

As somwone who constantly replaces jquey with vanilla js the difference is more like two lines of jquery against 3 lines of vannila js. One line more. But you have one dependency less, which is quite beneficial

JavaScript:

    var xs = document.querySelectorAll('.x');

    for (var i = 0; i
jQuery:

    $('.x').on('click', function() { $(this).hide() });
ಠ_ಠ

Re: Gov.uk drops jQuery from their front end

#360

Post by dspillett »

psnehanshu wrote: post #314
dspillett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though for that little work, I'd rather have a small local library that implements what I need over standard DOM & JS parts instead of the full weight of jQuery. Unless of course I need to support legacy browsers, then jQ is a no-brainer - that crap is solved there and I don't want to have to deal with it myself. And while jQ is large compared to my little home-grown set of wrappers, it is small compared to all the o…

There are tools like babel (even typescript) which can help you support older browsers.

For personal projects I'm far beyond caring about ancient browsers. In DayJob well hopefully soon be dropping support for IE completely. Unless someone is specifically paying me to care then I don't need help supporting truly legacy UAs.
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