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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#351

Post by donthellbanme »

lizknope wrote: post #284
quadrifoliate wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some positions it is just required. Typically the positions for which work is "just required" are lab and hardware positions. These don't tend to have the shoulder-to-shoulder squeeze of humans and desks that I always see in open-plan offices. Any time I have worked in a lab or on electronic hardware, I have had around 10 times the amount of personal space compared to the tightly packed "collaborative" open-pla…

I had an office with a door and window for 12 years at 2 different companies. It was great. I left the door open 90% of the time but it was great to be able to close the door for privacy the other 10%. I changed to a much better job in 2019 regarding work and salary but everyone including the VP's are in cubicles. It is really annoying when everyone around you is on a different conference call and you have to block t…

I sometimes think that some Managers, and even primary founders, have such ungratifing gratifying social lives outside of work; They need the social bonding, and drama, that goes on in certain work settings

Kinda like my last girlfriend. I honestly felt if she didn't have an office to go to, and couldn't boss around someone beneath her in the organization around, gossip, and socialize; she couldn't sleep well.

Yea, if she couldn't make someone at work miserable--what's the point of it all?

She didn't even care about the money, it was an ego thing that I will never understand. That Bad Boss attitude who get things done. That, "Dam I'm good!" attitude.

This is not about her gender. I have met more than a few guys with the same flaw. I just didn't go home with them. I've had way to many bosses that loved the office "family".

I don't know how many times I heard we are a family here. Under my breath--I mutter, ya the Manson Family.

I get the social part, but why make everone miserable by dragging them into the office, especially if things get done at home?

I usually liked all by co-workers, and even enjoyed their company outside of work. I was single though.

Covid proved many positions could could be done at home.

If I had the power, I would offer financial benefits to companies that kept employees home.

Working from home, if you can do it, should be celebrated.

And I won't even get started on the rediculious commutes we did for the past 100 plus years. I've know guys who commuted 3-4 hours a day.

If global warming is a problem wouldn't those in power want us at home instead of driving. But dude--we have electric cars? Most of us won't be able to afford one for years, and even then. Most electricity is still not carbon neutral.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#352

Post by mikece »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #301

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…

"The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away."

And employers can go on setting the terms of where people work; they are just going to have to do it facing the prospect they are going to lose a LOT of employees now that we've gotten the chance to work from home, made it work, and have spent considerable personal money optimizing our home offices and family lives around this WFH reality we've had.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#353

Post by mikece »

hintymad wrote: post #212

A theory is that VP+s love their teams to be in office. Their values are in talking to people all day long, and in-person meetings amplify the perceived values. Therefore, they do mandate returning-to-office policy. This also explains why companies argue how important in-person meetings are for productivity yet engineers are saying the opposite.

I wonder if the flatter an organization is the more working from wherever works for them. The flatter the organization the less need there is for "management by walking around" by middle and upper managers.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#354

Post by ddingus »

lizknope wrote: post #274
jjtheblunt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The office is where the very expensive labs are. For at least parts of Apple engineering, very expensive equipment and prototypes are under lockdown and too expensive to duplicate for WFH. (at least that's how it was during my several years there.)

I work for a large semiconductor company and during the pandemic the test engineers in the lab and IT staff were the only ones allowed into the office for the first year. Even the test engineers were allowed to take a lot of lab equipment home with them. The CEO did an all hands where he shared pics of all the lab people testing and evaluating chips at home.

Having a home lab is awesome!

In my case it is hobby fun rapidly turning professional. The way to fund hobby / new work is to get your investment at home to pay for itself. Free tools and gear essentially.

Early on, as I picked up skills and scored deals on equipment, I ended up able to take side gigs and or take on special projects. Sometimes I would do these on a "keep the gear" basis. No money changes hands. Recommended.

Pros:

Picking up new skills

Research on ones interest and terms

Flex time working is possible

Reduced commute

Work when ideation is high tide, so to speak

Cons:

It can be expected to work more

Personal / company boundaries are less clear (IP and overwork)

Can be expensive

Need space

Summary:

Personally, I have always had a lab at home, and I rarely take company gear home. Sometimes I have, but I try to buy my own, or the gear from the company.

I have had to make a few career jumps and the next one has pretty much been made possible by what I had at home and what I could do with it.

Be very careful about IP. The reward for that caution can be a real opportunity for you.

It can be the place where you show young people stuff they would never see otherwise and or, until much later. This happened for me as a teen and it was a huge boost! And it was where home lab started for me. My bedroom was my shop.

Of course, you gotta sort this for your scene too. The CEO letting people take gear home is nice and maybe a non issue for people. Depends on what one is doing and or plans to do.

Overall though, I deffo recommend doing it.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#355

Post by mikece »

rrggrr wrote: post #144

WFH is screwing young workers by eliminating the mentorship, learning by osmosis and relationship-building that has propelled many knowledge-based careers. If Goodfellow were truly a good fellow, he would recognize the higher purpose.

How is screen-sharing not adequate for pair programming and mentorship?

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#356

Post by bglazer »

tomohawk wrote: post #63
qbasic_forever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We deserve to have input into how we work best and if that means walking away from companies run by egomaniacs that need to see butts in seats, then so be it. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is to organize your coworkers. You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. The history of unionization stems primarily from workers demanding safe working environments.

Having seen how several family members fared in union jobs (several different unions), I swore I'd never belong to a union or work any job that required me to be part of one. They all had such an adversarial relationship with work. It's always us against them mentality. They could never see anyone in management as a human. I can't imagine living like that. As far as I can tell, the unions didn't ever solve any of the…

Since we’re doing anecdotes, a member of my family is an airline pilot and a member of the pilots union. It has been extremely effective in negotiating better working conditions and higher pay for my family member. Keep in mind that, absent union representation, being a pilot can be absolutely punishing, to the point of being dangerous.

Also, the company is able to maintain very high standards for the quality and skill of the pilots. There are not “useless Joe’s”, as evidenced by the fact that the planes don’t crash.

This family member is a diehard conservative politically but openly espouses the value of the union for representing his interests against the company.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#357

Post by klabb3 »

Aeolun wrote: post #132
qbasic_forever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We deserve to have input into how we work best and if that means walking away from companies run by egomaniacs that need to see butts in seats, then so be it. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is to organize your coworkers. You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. The history of unionization stems primarily from workers demanding safe working environments.

You have much more bargaining power, yes. But you’ll also be bargaining as part of a group that includes Joe Useless, who sits in the next cubicle over and ostensibly fulfills the same role as you. The company may be happy to give you a 10% raise, but they’d rather lower JU’s salary by 10%, so they won’t budge on your demands for an increase, since it’d also apply to him.

The free-rider problem applies to basically any system with cohorts. It's part of the incentive structure, for sure, but it's not the only part. As long as you accept utility in collective systems (ie if you're anything but a pure anarcho-capitalist), you recognize that in some cases (such as public roads) the value outweigh the costs of the free-rider problems. Once you're past that point, it should be all about tradeoffs and execution. Yet, in the US at least, a strict set of specific issues – like organizing employees and health insurance – brings out the free-rider issue every time, conveniently deadlocking the conversation before it even begins.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#358

Post by thewebcount »

otterley wrote: post #138
alistairSH wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe? I recently interviewed and nobody could tell me what the policy would be in a few months. “It’s WFH today, but that’ll probably change. And you can always take our bus from your local AWS office to the office where the rest of the team may or may not be because we don’t know what our policy will be.” I’d expect a company of Amazon’s size and stature to have a better plan than “whatever your VP wants this week.…

Why? The world changes around us, and the best businesses are capable of adapting to suit. It doesn’t make any sense to make promises that one can’t keep. They can’t promise that some teams can WFH forever, because it might not make sense forever. Nor should every team have the same policy, because different teams do different things. I think it makes more sense to be non-committal than to make promises and then have…

Why? Because people have responsibilities outside of work. People have children and spouses with chronic conditions that require them to be available at a moment’s notice to deal with, for example. And it’s not going to change just because some manager at ConHugeCo wants people back in the office. I cannot take a job without knowing that I’ll be allowed to work a particular way for the foreseeable future, as it just wouldn’t be safe for my family.

And yes, reneging on agreements is bad. Employers need to be forced to understand that humans have rights and their employees are humans. Telling someone their job is remote then changing that 3 months after they start should be illegal. Unfortunately, it’s not, so you’re SOL if you find yourself in that position.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#359

Post by nomdenator »

zmmmmm wrote: post #258
nextos wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think onsite working can be nice but the problem is that it is really hard to find a company that doesn't try to cram you into an open plan office with at least half a dozen people. I can't do any real work like that. Before COVID, I was going to the office to talk to people, attend meetings and do chores, whereas I did real work at home. It was unsustainable, as work ended up filling 80+ hours per week.

> it is really hard to find a company that doesn't try to cram you into an open plan office with at least half a dozen people exactly I'd be fine to go into the office but don't be under the illusion I'm going to accept materially worse working conditions in order to do it. I guess it isn't the same for everyone, but my home office is a very high bar to beat and it makes a real difference to my productivity and menta…

I wonder what I'm missing in this concept.

You would think that the people in charge would see that real estate is an unnecessary expense, where applicable.

Also, I've been to a lot of meetings where we were told "there are other things people value in work besides money". Maybe being able to manage your own work environment and save gas and time fits in that slot. A content, well rested workforce would be better IMO than one that's frazzled and is getting less out of their employment than they know is possible.

I'm at the age where I see Time as more valuable than anything, really.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#360

Post by civilized »

Doesn't he know that serendipitous water cooler encounters and impromptu lunchroom brainstorming sessions are the only way to innovate?

We should pretty much just replace the workplace with a water cooler called Serendipity and a lunchroom called Impromptu.

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