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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#351

Post by bgdam »

thowaway_2mar wrote: post #227
nirav72 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop conflating casteism as racism? While both equally horrible, one is not same as the other. One can possibly hide their caste. But a person cant change their racial phenotypes.

How can I hide me caste without changing my last name?

And this is why I am so thankful to Periyar and the social justice movement in the 60s in South India. The only state where it caught on with a fervor was TamilNadu, and thanks to the vast majority of the population opting to shift from caste-based surnames to Patronymical surnames, it is very difficult to identify caste from the name alone in today's Tamil Nadu.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#352

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

civilized wrote: post #204
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw the same at a prominent financial services firm. 50 - 60 Indians in the same dept from the same region. A big number. I even asked a senior manager if I needed to be Indian to excel at the company. He said the very fact I asked that question is a problem, whether or not it is true.

Was the problem your asking the question, or was the problem the apparent pattern of rampant casteism?

I am not Indian. Hope that helps explain.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#353

Post by mattzito »

pyuser583 wrote: post #348
beebmam wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called a conflict of interest, and anyone who has a conflict of interest in a given business situation should absolutely be removed from making any decisions around that conflict of interest (and they should be more than forthcoming about those conflicts of interest). Standards of Business Practice 101.

Interviewing someone from an opposite “frictioned background” is not considered a conflict of interest in law or ethics. “Conflict of interest” is when someone has a clearly defined interest, usually in something of value, that opposes the interests of someone they have a duty towards. In ethnic prejudice, there’s no clearly defined interest. I know this sounds pedantic. But when a conflict of interest arises, the ne…

> In ethnic prejudice, there’s no clearly defined interest.

> Ethnic bias is bad, but it’s not a conflict of interests.

Okay, so - for sure, if you're from an opposite "frictioned background" and you can interview someone neutrally, you should be able to.

But if you have an ethnic prejudice, you literally have an interest against the person you are interviewing.

> But when a conflict of interest arises, the next questions are “when did it begin?”, “when will it end?”, “how big was it?”, and “can we mitigate it somehow?”

(one example) > when did it begin?

hundreds of years ago

> when will it end?

not soon

> how big was it?

the US literally fought an entire war over it

> can we mitigate it somehow

Yes, by having a variety of people from different backgrounds interview the candidate.

That wasn't that hard, was it?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#356

Post by thumbsup-_- »

> A pat on the shoulder might be a friendly greeting—or a search for a sacred thread that some dominant-caste Hindu men wear beneath their shirts

I'm a non-dalit Indian working in silicon valley. I know that caste based discrimination is still prevalent in India and not surprised that it continues in here in silicon valley as well amongst Indian community but I'm surprised to read this part in the article. I have never heard of someone doing a scan for sacred thread. Also, it's worth noting that most non-dalit people also do not wear this sacred thread so whoever is doing this scan isn't familiar with India or probably this part is made up in the article.

That said, I know that it's much harder for a dalit person to progress in India as the society still tries to pull them behind. Indian govt has reservations in colleges and jobs for dalit community, which I believe has helped the community a lot in last 50 years or so, helping many to bring their families out of poverty. But, still there's a long way to go. Also, a long way to go for non-dalit community to abolish this discrimination.

My heart goes with our dalit brothers & sisters and glad to hear that their issues are being discussed in silicon valley as well now.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#357

Post by ngc248 »

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #47

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

>>> from the same part of India

being from the same part of India does not mean they will be of the same caste.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#358

Post by powerslacker »

pyuser583 wrote: post #349
throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

Personally, I’ve much more “empire building” type behavior (let’s hire tons people from my background who will probably support my initiatives), than discrimination against “others.”

I've also seen this far more often, especially when there is a major change in a C-level position.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#359

Post by tomnipotent »

burnoutgal wrote: post #164
michaelt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not? I know plenty of tech companies that make sure female applicants get interviewed by at least one female engineer during the hiring process. They have a good faith belief this reduces discrimination rather than increasing it. Of course, it could stray into discriminatory territory if you're doing something dumb - like sending all minority applicants to a hardass interviewer who rejects everyone; or givin…

I have been the token woman interviewing a woman and also joined teams where the only other woman interviewed me. It always struck me more as "look, we have one and she's not mouthing 'get out' so we're a good employer". Usually once I join the one other woman leaves and the cycle repeats.

How else would you recommend they approach the situation? Should the other woman not have been bothered to interview you?

Maybe a more generous interpretation is that people are flawed, and they're making an effort as imperfect as it is. I I feel the alternative is a catch-22, and everybody be damned regardless of the motive, effort, our outcome - nothing will be good enough.

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