The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation • Hacker News Board

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#351

Post by fortuna86 » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #350

fortuna86 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why change the subject? Lol actually getting off of vague platitudes is "changing the subject". Right, enjoy your weekend. > You made a false claim No I didn't, you either misunderstood what I said or deliberately lied about it to argue a strawman, because that's easier than actually addressing what i'm saying. > The internet is really much, much less dangerous for your mind than reading ordinary newspapers or watc…

Your claim: > no one had any issues with a polio vaccine Reality: > 40,000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10 There's no misunderstanding or straw man here. You made a false claim whilst accusing others of misinformation. Which seems to be often the way it goes with "misinformation" - not a vague platitude, of course, but the topic of the entire thread.

I said no one had any objections to it, 20% of the population didn't refuse the polio vaccine and refuse to give it to their kids (which is the topic of discussion, if you need reminding again).

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#352

Post by native_samples » Sat, Feb 19, 2022, 7:04 PM UTC

fortuna86 wrote: post #351

native_samples wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim: > no one had any issues with a polio vaccine Reality: > 40,000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10 There's no misunderstanding or straw man here. You made a false claim whilst accusing others of misinformation. Which seems to be often the way it goes with "misinformation" - not a vague platitude, of course, but the topic of the entire thread.

I said no one had any objections to it, 20% of the population didn't refuse the polio vaccine and refuse to give it to their kids (which is the topic of discussion, if you need reminding again).

Of course they had objections to it, don't be ridiculous. You think something like that happened and everyone just shrugged and said, hey, no big deal? The reason vaccine companies are immune from legal liability is because after what happened at Cutter Labs there were floods of litigation and a jury found against the vaccine makers, which more or less killed off the vaccine business. From a review of the book:

"Dr. Offit also explores how, as a consequence of the tragedy, one jury's verdict set in motion events that eventually suppressed the production of vaccines already licensed and deterred the development of new vaccines that hold the promise of preventing other fatal diseases"

A big part of what drives vaccine refusal today is awareness that vaccination campaigns have a history of being so dangerous the producers cannot survive in the open market under the normal rules.

Also, the topic of discussion is actually the original article about misinformation and the internet, in general. It was you who insisted on bringing up vaccines in an unrelated thread.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#353

Post by fortuna86 » Sun, Feb 20, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #352

fortuna86 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said no one had any objections to it, 20% of the population didn't refuse the polio vaccine and refuse to give it to their kids (which is the topic of discussion, if you need reminding again).

Of course they had objections to it, don't be ridiculous. You think something like that happened and everyone just shrugged and said, hey, no big deal? The reason vaccine companies are immune from legal liability is because after what happened at Cutter Labs there were floods of litigation and a jury found against the vaccine makers, which more or less killed off the vaccine business. From a review of the book: "Dr.…

> Of course they had objections to it, don't be ridiculous.

Not to the point where 20% of the population refused it, which is the point of this discussion. Major news networks didn't run opinion voices lying about the safety and safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Comparing that era to this one is misinformed.

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#354

Post by fortuna86 » Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC

PathOfEclipse wrote: post #340

fortuna86 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started to respond to this, claiming a DNS request is "infiltrating into whitehouse servers". This is a technology forum, do I really need to explain to you why that is complete and utter rubbish? Linking to opinion pieces by right wing media isn't a way of making an argument btw, it's outsourcing your thinking to partisans that can tell you want you want to hear. I don't like a lot of things about politics these d…

I stand corrected, thank you. I had not seriously dug into where the word "infiltrate" came from or what it exactly meant. This would be a case where the sources I trust are likely sharing misinformation. From this article: https://lawandcrime.com/russia-investigation/the-words-infil... While some might blur the line between “spying” and “exploit[ing] . . . access to non-public and/or proprietary Internet data,” the…

> I stand corrected, thank you

Big of you to say.

> I still believe I am still correct that the Steel Dossier and the Russian collusion story were entirely unfounded fabrications of the Clinton team

Then you double down on more partisan nonsense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/us/politics/senate-intell...

The GOP-led bipartisan commission concluded Russia attacked the 2016 election in favor of Trump, their words. You are again to the right of your own party. Also nothing in the Steele Dossier has been disproven, and lots of it has been collaborated. If you are still interested in what is true and what isn't, please continue reading with an open mind:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

https://www.justsecurity.org/44697/steele-dossier-knowing/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics/dossier-two-years-la...

Re: The “misinformation problem” seems like misinformation

#355

Post by edanm » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 8:35 AM UTC

fortuna86 wrote: post #239

brianfitz wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe he was using the source article. One example was a leap in public polling around how our government functions (33% jump in being able to identify the three branches of the US federal government).

Congratulations to us all on the bump in basic civics knowledge. Meanwhile, on more important matters, acceptance of vaccines (which used to be nearly universally viewed as safe and effective) have plummeted. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... Similar numbers can be found about faith in democracy, views toward fellow citizens, etc. It's not just lack of knowledge, it's the embracing and p…

Have you read the article? He talks specifically about this very subject, and why this narrative is wrong.

> When I asked Twitter followers to suggest the best evidence they had that misinformation has become worse than it was 30 years ago, a lot of people expressed their frustration with the people who won’t get Covid-19 vaccines. I also find this extremely frustrating.

> That said, vaccination rates for kids have actually risen since the mid-1990s [...]

> A lot of people know that the licensing of the polio vaccine in the 1950s was widely greeted with celebratory headlines and the ringing of church bells. [...] Eighteen months after authorization, vaccine uptake was still slow, and that was after a much longer development process.