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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#351

Post by lovecg »

galosh wrote: post #337

Insightful thread on how (worst case) this might escalate: https://twitter.com/man_integrated/status/149329779603169281... I'm guessing the more likely option is that the trucker community become "conscientious objectors" and refuse to work, in the hope that their number will cripple services. Does sitting at home still count as terrorism? Because I'd happily fund that

So, a strike? That was always allowed. Given they’re not supported by the actual unions and are a pretty small fraction of truckers anyway, good luck to them.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#352

Post by sokoloff »

naasking wrote: post #275
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

You should listen to the one-third, but you also should listen to the two-thirds and weigh their opinion appropriately more heavily.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#353

Post by daenz »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated.

Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#354

Post by throwaway48292 »

015a wrote: post #305
pas wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oppose vax mandates why? could you explain your stande on other mandates/requirements and what's this vax mandate does that makes it so different? (eg. you need a passport/visa-like thing to enter, you need clothes, if you arrive by car that needs papers and a valid safety profile, you need to use the seatbelt, and so on)

I am not the OP, but hold a similar stance, primarily for the reason that the mandates represent a "the last 20% takes 80% of the time" inefficiency in what should be a global effort to dampen the pandemic, and the massive resources invested in first world countries to claw every last hundredth of a percent of the population to get vaccinated could be invested to see much greater effect in second & third world countr…

(UK) At some point it started to feel like stirring division for its own sake, since everyone will be exposed to the virus regardless of whether we get another 0.1% vaccinated. Luckily it seems to be calming down now.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#355

Post by hiram112 »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #209
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

> First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana ... My understanding was this was about the mandates and restrictions themselves not about the vaccine. I mean I am vaxxed and oppose vax mandates.

Agreed. I was forced to get the vax due to my company's business dealings with the federal gov't. One of my developers, meanwhile, refused to get vaccinated, and so far the threat from my employer has just kind of stalled as different state and federal lawsuits have been going through the courts, while he walks on eggshells about his employment status and future career. My team works remote 99% of the time, btw. Engineers rarely deal with the customers either.

Regardless, I think he's been treated poorly by the company as we explicitly denied him the ability to join us at a few on-site meetings and outings. I'm not sure anyone can credibly assert anymore that his un-vaccinated status puts anyone other than himself at increased risk. At this point, it's a form of psychological warfare against him for refusing to conform, and that's WRONG.

I don't know if I would have gotten a vaccination without the threat of termination. I probably would have, but being forced has left me feeling anger towards both my employer and the gov't. And I've been with my employer for 8 years or so - I've enjoyed my time there.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#356

Post by fishidns »

015a wrote: post #305
pas wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oppose vax mandates why? could you explain your stande on other mandates/requirements and what's this vax mandate does that makes it so different? (eg. you need a passport/visa-like thing to enter, you need clothes, if you arrive by car that needs papers and a valid safety profile, you need to use the seatbelt, and so on)

I am not the OP, but hold a similar stance, primarily for the reason that the mandates represent a "the last 20% takes 80% of the time" inefficiency in what should be a global effort to dampen the pandemic, and the massive resources invested in first world countries to claw every last hundredth of a percent of the population to get vaccinated could be invested to see much greater effect in second & third world countr…

True, but the problem, at least in Canada, isn't the spread from/to the remaining 20%, but the strain and cost to the public healthcare system. The spread from them is a small part of it too, but not the primary factor.

Canada is kind of in a difficult place, because refusing medical treatment is an even bigger taboo then forcing vaccination. But the publicly funded medical system is having to pay a high price both in cost and in capacity due to that remaining 20%.

This is why people are looking for ways to reduce that. Refusing medical care is not currently seen as a viable option, thus vaccine incentives are being explored, like restricting what someone can do if unvaccinated.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#357

Post by pkd »

ipaddr wrote: post #80
itslennysfault wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeeeeeah, I don't know about that. Anyone with their truck there risks forfeiting the asset that was used in commission of a crime. AKA their livelihood and likely most expensive asset. There is certainly not a bottomless pit of people wishing to do that.

The people who have their lives taken away have little left to live for. The increases the violence and grows a movement you want to stop. If Trudeau opened debate weeks ago I wonder where we would be today.

You wish that Trudeau opened debate with people who demanded that his government be deposed and replaced by the protest organisers?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#358

Post by young_unixer »

WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

> 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated

That's irrelevant. The protest is not against vaccines.

I'm fully vaccinated and have voluntarily received my booster shot, and I would support the convoy if I was Canadian. I also support vaccination and want the highest amount of people to be vaccinated. There's no contradiction there. I want people to get vaccinated, I just don't want people to be forced to get vaccinated.

> Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign

The news has spread to the world and it's currently the most notable example of government vs. anti-mandate disputes.

> most canadian donations are from wealthy business owners,

Most donations, in general, are almost always from wealthy people, for the very obvious reason that they have more money to donate.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#360

Post by tdfx »

defaultname wrote: post #277
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope the response is a protest escalation" That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Sign petiti…

> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in

Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine?

Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.

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