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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#351

Post by protomyth »

Well, no since I deal with enough virtual crap all day, and don't really have any desire to deal with the real thing. Plus, plumber does require an apprenticeship in the US.

I, on the other hand, have thought about buying quite a bit of carpentry equipment when I am done with IT. These new CNC machines are amazingly programmable and just the thought of actually building custom furniture excites me.

I did grow up in an era and place where I learned electrical and carpentry ("ok students, in order to have the photography class we need to build a dark room"). So, I do know a bit about basic techniques, but would probably take some classes to refresh my knowledge and learn the "right way".

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#352

Post by emerged »

digitaltrees wrote: post #347
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor. The implication then is that a software developer wishing to become a plumber is ungrateful for their “better” job and naive for wanting a “harder” and “worse” job mistakingly believing it to be easier. Would y…

To be honest yes I would consider it a little condescending. No doubt they would be similarly creating a utopian vision of what our jobs entail and come at it from the angle of “boy wish I could just sit around all day doing nothing”

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#353

Post by [deleted] »

jeffrallen wrote: post #264
nilkn wrote: post #208

In the FIRE community, this kind of topic often comes up. Are there any enjoyable full-time or part-time jobs to do in semi-retirement? Invariably, the conclusion is that low-wage or part-time jobs almost always come with enough baggage to outweigh any perceived benefits as a semi-retirement gig. A job is a job -- anything that produces a consistent income is going to involve dealing with unreasonable people or expec…

I worked as a volunteer in a food pantry's warehouse for a while when I was "early retired", and it was great. Satisfying real work with real outcomes that were visible ("pallet is restacked", check!), in the service of a mission I believed in.

[deleted]

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#354

Post by boppo1 »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #322
emteycz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I wanted to be a friend. They were cool to me, I was cool to them. It was all in good jest, with a bit of truth. ;-)

I guess but the phrasing that he used was unbelievably condescending and you just accepted it.

It's a hard thing to describe, but among people doing that kind of job, an insult like that can be a signal that you're "on the inside" of the group. It's pretty contextual and you have to listen to their tone of voice.

If you've seen Good Will Hunting, imagine Affleck and Damon's characters meeting again years down the road. Affleck might call Damon a "computer pussy" but both of them know Affleck is proud of Damon and would trade places with him if he had the skills.

Not to say "computer pussy" isn't potentially extremely condescending; just that such usage of profanity among laborers is often colloquially used to express sincere kinship and camaraderie.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#355

Post by pwython »

grogenaut wrote: post #348
pwython wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. You're all over the place with this comment dude. > "Every one of my friends who has a BMW would agree they care about appearences and are a bit of a dbag, I have about 10..." I would seriously reconsider who is the dbag among your 10 BMW friends. The people that care about what car someone drives are the ones venting about their buddies spending money on tires and quarts of oil online. Unless I missed the part…

Almost of these comments are from my friend about the his own driving habits with the car. It's his money he can blow through tires if he wants. He's the one calling himself a dbag. I think he's got redeeming qualities and some insecurities, it's why he's still a friend.

So it's 1 friend and not 10 that are self-proclaimed dbags. Well I guess add me to that list.

- BMW M4 dbag owner who drives like a normal person.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#356

Post by kube-system »

artemonster wrote: post #306
kube-system wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is a choice in the same way citizenship is a choice. Sometimes it is a choice, often you’re born into it, and you often have to meet qualifications to change it, and some of those may be impossible to meet. And your social environment may impose some significant expectations on you.

now you're trying to argue about a specifics of the example I've given. Its tangent to the main question: whether stereotyping on something that is a choice or inherent is different? If you say that it is, can you please elaborate?

Yes, it is different, but not in a boolean sort of way. It is impolite to make fun of people for something that is not their fault... and generally speaking, the degree to which it wasn't a choice (and the degree to which it impacts someone's life experience) contributes to the degree of impoliteness.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#357

Post by redisman »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #291

One way to fix this urge is to leave the field and work as a plumber, electrician or in factory. Unless you have enough money to do it as a hobby most people will quickly see that this is not as great as you may think. While in school I used to work in construction and factories in the summer months. I quickly realized that an engineer job is much nicer and paid way better. But I have to admit that as a mechanical en…

I’m glad I had a real progression unlike most people who do a CS degree and then get a high paying job. I did manual min wage labor as a teen, then min wage IT work, then barely above that “programming” work in my small city, then finally my first real programming job and now I’m in the mid-echelons of software in a big tech city. Life is good! I still think work philosophically sucks for me (FIRE one day..) but I wouldn’t trade this job for any of the earlier ones - doubly so now that I get paid 20-30x more.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#358

Post by takinola »

nkozyra wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

I think it is more than just condescension. In job's like plumbing or carpentry, it is much easier to ascertain when your work is done and if it is good. The workmen on a house remodel have a fixed(ish) scope and at the end of the day the homeowner is either happy with the work or not. The outcomes are tangible and quickly ascertained. On the other hand, when you start work on a software project, it will take months or possibly years to know if the strategy or architecture you chose pays off. The roadmap concept also means software is never done and there is always more code that needs to be written.

In the software world, you don't get the satisfaction of knowing that you have done something well in the same visceral way physical trades provide.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#359

Post by thaumasiotes »

nefitty wrote: post #321
jackcosgrove wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did this behavior start with the coda of Office Space or has it always been a thing? No, it's such a cliche that's why Office Space chose to use it. The movie Lost in America explores this theme much more generally. The funniest thing about the end of Office Space is that by "dropping out" of software during the Y2k era and entering the construction field, the protagonist is just swapping one bubble for another, so…

The alternate ending changes the tenor of the entire film with just one line of dialogue. Peter is probably dissatisfied on a deeper level than any job could fix. Maybe he would find meaning as an entrepreneur or travelling or dropping out... https://youtu.be/XK43Ureuiqc

> The alternate ending changes the tenor of the entire film with just one line of dialogue.

This also happens with Kiki's Delivery Service. It makes the English dub much, much better than the Japanese original.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#360

Post by boppo1 »

ant6n wrote: post #304
laxatives wrote: post #121

A professor of mathematics noticed that his kitchen sink at his home leaked. He called a plumber. The plumber came the next day and sealed a few screws, and everything was working as before. The professor was delighted. However, when the plumber gave him the bill a minute later, he was shocked. "This is one-third of my monthly salary!" he yelled. Well, all the same he paid it and then the plumber said to him, "I unde…

That's a sovjet era joke about professors working as plumbers, because back then blue collar labor was more respected than intellectual endeavors.

I suspect the US might sorta wind up there in 10-20 years. Low interest rates have subsidized borderline-avant-garde tech jobs a bit too long.
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