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Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#351

Post by nkrisc »

t0bia_s wrote: post #191
nkrisc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Can you say the same for my elderly relatives that would like to spend time around our child? I’m not as worried about the child as I’m worried about him spreading it to someone who won’t be spared.

Vaccines wont give you imminity for spreading virus. Inform yourself, please.

Of course not, and I never stated as such. That's why even though I'm vaccinated I still wear mask in crowded public places. From the informing of myself I've done, the studies I've seen on the topic so far do suggest reduced transmission by vaccinated individuals. If you know studies that show otherwise, please share them I'd love to read them.

We're trying to balance multiple factors: living our life normally, protecting ourselves, protecting family members we still interact with. We take some known risks: sending child to preschool, while taking known precautions: wearing masks, getting vaccinated. If being vaccinated reduces the chance that we might spread the virus to someone, then that's a marginal advantage we'll stack in our favor.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#352

Post by nkrisc »

christkv wrote: post #196
nkrisc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Can you say the same for my elderly relatives that would like to spend time around our child? I’m not as worried about the child as I’m worried about him spreading it to someone who won’t be spared.

Even if you vaccinate your kid he will still get it and spread it. I don't understand why this fact is just ignored by people. The vaccine is not sterilizing, it does not stop transmission, only lessens disease severity. The chain of transmissions will only be broken by natural immunity unfortunately.

The studies I've read suggest reduced transmission ability by vaccinated individuals. If you know of ones that state otherwise please share them, I'd love to read them as well for a broader understanding.

If in fact vaccination reduces transmission of the virus, then that's an advantage I'll stack in our favor, among other precautions like wearing masks.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#353

Post by nkrisc »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #209
nkrisc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Can you say the same for my elderly relatives that would like to spend time around our child? I’m not as worried about the child as I’m worried about him spreading it to someone who won’t be spared.

Is the action of your elderly relatives spending a lot of time around your child worth compromising your child's normal youth and mental health?

Please elaborate: in what way is our child's normal youth and mental health being compromised? Are you spying on us? How do you know what we're doing?

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#354

Post by exegete »

tlogan wrote: post #99

Slowly all countries will drop all COVID restrictions. Sadly it will be very slowly and our young ones will continue suffering :(

Hopefully a vaccine will be approved for the youngest group soon, although I imagine there will still be a disparity between poor and wealthy countries.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#355

Post by nkrisc »

djrogers wrote: post #293
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death isn’t the only negative outcome. Omicron has a higher propensity to infect the upper respiratory tract, which is less developed in young children. You need to forget what you’ve heard about older variants and children. Look at the stats. More kids are being hospitalized in this wave and more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. It’s not good.

> more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. Citation please? Current CDC data don’t show enough deaths in that age range to be statistically significant, let alone provide that conclusion.

Having personally known a 2 year old who was severely ill from COVID-19, I'll do what I can to prevent that happening to my child.

Statistics mean nothing once something bad has happened to you. It's not like having been struck by lightning is less bad because the odds of happening to you were low. I will do what I can to stack the odds in our favor.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#356

Post by smitty1e »

biorach wrote: post #342
smitty1e wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing new there, beaurocrats and public health officials have long had the power to make highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. I'll yield on the kind, but the degree with the Covid is off the charts for peacetime action. Was this wise? Were the across-the-board outcomes worth it? Those who made the decisions may be biased in their reflections on the matter.

> but the degree with the Covid is off the charts for peacetime action. Actually, no. This is exactly the level of heavy handed, indiscriminate beaurocratic/government control that poorer people have always had to deal with - see for example how large scale city planning has tended to distribute its most disruptive consequences among the poorest neighbourhoods, or how public health systems have judged most harshly an…

> Actually, no. This is exactly the level of heavy handed, indiscriminate beaurocratic/government control that poorer people have always had to deal with - see for example how large scale city planning has tended to distribute its most disruptive consequences among the poorest neighbourhoods, or how public health systems have judged most harshly and intruded most forcefully into the lives of the poorest.

Once again: kind, not degree. Short of wartime mobilization, there just aren't examples of bureaucrats ordering wrenching economic changes on this scale.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#357

Post by encryptluks2 »

acdha wrote: post #349
encryptluks2 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that are vaxxed are still getting the disease.

At a lower rate and with far less severity, which is exactly what we expected based on the initial data. Omicron's arrival means that more people are getting sick but when they do, it's still considerably less severe — which is good because Omicron is sending more people to the hospital even though it's ~40-50% less likely to do so compared to Delta. I realize that you don't want to admit having been so wrong about t…

Again, there you go quoting CDC ignoring the authorization which is for prevention and moving the goal posts quicker than QAnon. Some vaxxed people are in a constant state of Stockholm Syndrome. The evidence you speak of is unattainable at this point and VAERS is one of the only outlets which is significantly backlogged, and according to pro-vaxxers can't be trusted anymore because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#358

Post by encryptluks2 »

acdha wrote: post #347
encryptluks2 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knew? I mean I can send videos if you'd like of Biden and left-wing politicians saying the vaccine would prevent you from getting it. Also, prevention of the disease would mean that people are asymptomatic and/or that they aren't getting COVID. Hospitals in many areas are publishing data showing majority of people there for COVID are vaxxed. So much for prevention of the disease.

> Everyone knew? I mean I can send videos if you'd like of Biden and left-wing politicians saying the vaccine would prevent you from getting it. If you were paying attention, note the difference between saying it will prevent all retransmission versus reducing it, which is what happened. Also, try to compare what actual medical experts said as opposed to the political entertainers whose talking points you're repeatin…

Oh look, you're wrong again:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/22/joe-biden/...

> Biden said Dec. 14 that people vaccinated for COVID-19 "do not spread the disease to anyone else."

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#359

Post by rsfern »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #357
acdha wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a lower rate and with far less severity, which is exactly what we expected based on the initial data. Omicron's arrival means that more people are getting sick but when they do, it's still considerably less severe — which is good because Omicron is sending more people to the hospital even though it's ~40-50% less likely to do so compared to Delta. I realize that you don't want to admit having been so wrong about t…

Again, there you go quoting CDC ignoring the authorization which is for prevention and moving the goal posts quicker than QAnon. Some vaxxed people are in a constant state of Stockholm Syndrome. The evidence you speak of is unattainable at this point and VAERS is one of the only outlets which is significantly backlogged, and according to pro-vaxxers can't be trusted anymore because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Why are you continuing to misrepresent the EUA documents? They don’t support your assertion. (If you point to where in the authorization docs they specify the goal is to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, I’ll change my mind. I linked the moderna application in another sub thread, and the pfizer one is easy to find)

Also VAERS is not the only data source we have for vaccine safety, it’s our hypothesis generation system. We have good data from the vaccine safety datalink system that let us actually quantify the risk of different side effects. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2021.15072

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#360

Post by tzs »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #312
tzs wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitalization rates for the vaccinated are an order of magnitude lower than the rates for the unvaccinated, and death rates more so. However, even though I'm fully vaccinated and boosted so personally have no reason to fear COVID from the point of view of landing in the hospital or dying directly from COVID (and all my friends and family are in a similar position) it is still an indirect concern because the unvacci…

>it is still an indirect concern because the unvaccinated are taking up hospital resources that I might need. The solution to this is to bump the unvaccinated to the lowest priority of hospitals. If beds are full they should be removed from the hospital.

That's the kind of thing that if you are going to do you have to set in motion well before you actually need to do it, because it would take quite a while to debate and resolve the ethical issues raised.

So no, even if those ethical questions would be resolved in favor of it, it is at best a solution during a future pandemic. It is not one for this pandemic.

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