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I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

benadam.me

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Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#351

Post by thrwyoilarticle »

emptybottle wrote: post #80

It's really a shame what many of the "FAANG" companies (and the companies who admire/adopt their practices) are doing to tech work. My own experiences, the horror stories I've read, the broken/horrible interview trivia loops, the nonstop crunches, the nonstop on-call escalations, the difficult ethical positions that come with working at some companies, etc. have me feeling worse than ever about this profession. It di…

>It didn't use to be like this. There was a time not long ago when individual personality and skills mattered. Workloads could be negotiated, interviews were conversational.

Er, when? Old Microsoft was infamous for the ping pong ball interview questions and stack rankings. Is this not just a result of companies in the tech market being successful and turning from plucky underdog to bureaucratic behemoth?

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#352

Post by weeblewobble »

ss108 wrote: post #248
that_guy_iain wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My biggest gripe is that Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles. For me, leetcode is basically just what is taught at university level. So they're hiring people based on if they know stuff they would learn and forget from university. The thing is, it's not about having free time, it's about being so dedicated to getting the job that you'll spe…

> For me, the main reason I don't want to work for FAANG is they have a reputation for long hours I thought working at Google or Facebook was supposed to be a pretty chill "rest and vest" situation, esp at the former (?)

My experience is that it can be pretty chill if you're happy with your level, but if you're going for a promo you need to work super hard

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#353

Post by paganel »

pyrale wrote: post #300
brazzledazzle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he came back from parental leave and his direct reports had all been put on a PIP while he was out Wow. It’s really difficult to imagine a likely scenario where that’s justified.

Imagine getting fired because your manager is on a leave and their manager sees you as free real estate.

Tells a lot about company politics. Often times I'm left wondering how come capitalism still survives.

Actually, writing this down made me think that big companies (like the FAANG mostly are) are quite anti-capitalistic. I'm not sure how to call them, because sure as hell they're not socialist or anything of the sorts, but it's reasonably clear that many of the theoretical capitalistic principles that many of us know in one way or another do not apply to these economic entities.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#354

Post by reaperducer »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #230
colinmhayes wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles Finding people who are willing to spend months in order to get the job is one of the biggest reasons companies use leetcode.

I've never used Leetcode, but it keeps coming up here. I've been interviewer a lot lately and I keep trying to find ways to filter out the candidates that care more about interview prep than solving real problems. Is this a nonstandard perspective?

It depends on what kind of people you're trying to hire.

If you want button-pushers who will keep their heads down and do exactly what they're told, even if it doesn't make sense or is detrimental to the company, then leetcode is a good way to find those people.

If you want actual human beings who are able to think abstractly, critically, and contribute to the team and help the company grow, then look for people who have been working long enough to know that leetcode is a dead end.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#355

Post by waoush »

yelling_cat wrote: post #176
dpark wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure they do. They just also don’t care until it becomes a critical issue. I am contacted by an Amazon recruiter at least once a week. I’m sure every engineer I know is. I wonder how much of their money they blow on recruiting and how much engineering time is spent in interviews replacing all the burned out engineers. Plus all the talent that won’t even entertain a job at Amazon.

Lately I've seen less recruiter pitches from Amazon and more personalized messages from managers there about specific roles on their teams, which is a new wrinkle. I doubt that those people would add hours of recruiting to their weekly workload unless the standard candidate pipeline was really running dry.

I got a message on LinkedIn from a software developer manager there less than a month ago. Was quite shocked and didn't think such a thing was even possible.

Also got a staff software engineer from Facebook who added me on there, and had in their title "hiring". lol.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#356

Post by unnouinceput »

qqtt wrote: post #244
the_snooze wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Basically every manager is forced to stack-rank their entire team, and the bottom N percent is put on a PIP. So even if your entire team is comprised of very top-notch engineers you will see forced attrition. That sounds like a huge disincentive to mentoring and developing your team.

> That sounds like a huge disincentive to mentoring and developing your team. I've heard there are huge communication issues within teams, thanks to policies like this. You have to look out for yourself first and foremost, otherwise you are up next for the stack ranking. Better to sabotage your team mate's onboarding than risk being next in line for the firing squad. It's actually worse, because it's actually a "unre…

And all these sounds to me that devs at Amazon needs unionization rather faster than the poor workers in their warehouses.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#357

Post by seanmcdirmid »

taurath wrote: post #220
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I hear, Amazon is incredibly uneven in org quality, so it is really possible your friend got unlucky. My wife works at Amazon and seems to have a pretty good balance and has good things to say about her work environment, but she is not a SWE (rather a designer). Still, I don't think I would ever work there without a lot of careful research about the group I was going into.

This is what they always say but they never say which orgs are good or bad. When you’re a candidate you are rolling the dice

> When you’re a candidate you are rolling the dice

Ya, and the recruiters always try to get you into what sound like would be the worst orgs (I would guess positions in good orgs are "known" about outside of what the recruiters are trying to fill).

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#358

Post by monetus »

pas wrote: post #331
ubermonkey wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quota of people who needed to be on PIPs? That's insane.

Keep the blood fresh. The slowest/oldest/worst 10% has to go! Stack ranking is the best!

Almost all casual retail jobs in my area operate like this. It is somewhat stunning when you compare them to national chains not using localized labor practices.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#359

Post by OJFord »

jedberg wrote: post #274
jonny_eh wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they couldn't sharpen a knife? Would you still trust them to cook a 5 course dinner?

Sure. Just like I trust race car drivers to drive even though they don't know how to fix the car. As long as they understand the basics of how the car parts interact, they'll be just fine driving it.

But in practice, a good one probably won't let anyone else sharpen their knives, nevermind be unable to do it.

It'd be a bit like 'someone else has set up a software development environment for you, now write some code' I suppose.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#360

Post by taurath »

mc32 wrote: post #205
Jemaclus wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance Improvement Plan. On paper, it's a program where management works with you to improve your weak points so you don't get fired. In practice, it's HR protecting the company by documenting reasons to fire you before they fire you. It's rare (not unheard of, but rare) to work your way out of a PIP. In general, if you get put on a PIP, I would immediately start doing some soul-searching as to why I might be on…

Good advice. No matter how much you might try to "ace" it and put in your best effort, more than 9 out of 10 times, the person will not come out of it. Anything and everything no matter how minor is likely to be used as supporting evidence. So interpret it as a notice of eviction of sorts where they pay you some months to find a new job. Yes, there are exceptions. Thing is do you want to try your luck with HR?

It is the full force of the company saying “we don’t perceive you as being performant anymore”. Even on the individual level changing someone’s perceptions takes double or triple the effort to establish them in the first place.
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